Open Thread (10/15/2008)

Heaven help the fellow who gets his "facts" from Justin Raimondo. He's long been an inch away from saying that not only was 9/11 an inside job, it was really done by the Mossad.

Where is his Error?

1.  Barring a catastrophe ...it looks like Barack Obama is going to be the 44th president of these United States.

Not many ought to argue with that.

2. ...we'll have a Democratic Congress, one with a working majority that relegates the Republicans to the role of back bench naysayers whose dissent barely registers.

Again, Accuracy Incarnate.

3. Last year, Paul Craig Roberts expressed the hopes of many American voters when he wrote:
"If we are fortunate, Republicans will complete their self-destruction before they extinguish the Constitution and destroy America."  It looks like he's going to get his wish.

While I would say that the extinguishing of the Constitution and the destruction of America is a true bi-partisan effort, the giant sucking sound of voters leaving the GOP seems to be reality.

4.  What killed the GOP was the war and its inevitable aftermath – the economic blowback that is even now whipping across the landscape and downing Wall Street's mightiest edifices. Not only that, but the general air of uncertainty and fear generated by the war and its economic and psychological ripple effects have created a crisis of confidence, one that threatens our well-being in an immediate way... After the American people found out they'd been deceived – that there were no "weapons of mass destruction," that we never had a chance of being greeted as "liberators," and that, far from paying for itself, as Paul Wolfowitz infamously averred, we'd be stuck with a $3 trillion bill – they cut the GOP loose and haven't yet looked back.

It is the GOP's ridiculous foreign policy and its departure from real conservatism that has done them in at the hand of the neocons.  Raimondo recognized the importance of blowback in foreign policy.  Some just call it "Sowing and Reaping"  others call it Karma, what ever that is.  Americans are learning to hate the policy of the NeoCons and that is a good thing.

5.  This has always been the Republicans' war, no matter how enthusiastically most of the Democratic leadership initially supported it.  

This seems to be Raimondo's weakest point, since I see the war in ______  (fill the blank, Iraq) to be a continuation of Clinton's war which was Bush's war...

6.  The war we're supposedly "winning" has been the overarching theme of the McCain campaign, and he doesn't seem comfortable talking about anything else – unless it's why we must guarantee the borders of every obscure ex-Soviet "republic" for all time. The prime-time speakers at the Republican convention echoed the party line on the war, ad nauseam, and the entire event was one long paean to militarism and the glory of war. There were more uniforms in that convention hall than at the graduating ceremonies of West Point and Annapolis combined, and all the talk was of valor on the battlefield. Perhaps they should change their name to the Praetorian Party...

*Fact*.  and Humour.

...Maybe McCain/Palin was an inside job, just to get the public to buy into the Great Shape-Shifting Obamination as the Different if not Lesser Evil.

...and I think this anon probably sees an anti-Semite behind every Swastika.

So much for the bailouts and buyouts the market is tanking big time again.  I remember reading about the crash of 1929,,,where JP Morgan and some other big shots went and bought stocks to shore it up long enough to get themselves out,, whom is the government trying to bail out?  Sure as hell not a working persons 401k,  Cheney is having heart problems again,,,,that is kind of surprising, I did not realize he had one.

Election question for Mark -

Define "electioneering".  Can a voter, while voting, display any partisan message/iconography, e.g. a candidate t-shirt, sticker, etc?  Hold a sign while in the booths?

What about this?

Or with your little one wearing this:

Serious question - I'd like to know what limits, if any, exist.

His error is being an anti-Semitic loon, blaming all sorts of things -- including, fatuously, the current economic crisis -- on "neo-conservatives," but then naming almost exclusively the Jewish ones while ignoring the rest, and doing so while reviving the classic anti-Semitic theme of "parasites." And that's just in the column you posted. Other columns show that he has a Definite Problem With The Jews. That's why it's so disappointing to see you taking him anything like seriously. It's not a libertarian issue or a Ron Paul issue, it's a bigotry issue.

Anon, you seem very hostile toward anti-Semitics, "anti-(anti-semitic)".  Doesn't it make you a Bigot if you are prejudiced against anti-semitics?  

(BTW, you might find it interesting that the avian Loon belongs to the genus Urinator, from urinari in the original sense of diving or plunging into water.  Aint that a pisser?)

I don't know much about Semitism or anti-Semitism, whether avian or demented, or blame, whether fatuous or by fatwa.  Please help me to see the relevance here.  The article is not about bigotry.  Your insistence on nonbigotry (as defined by you) is like expecting your accountant to good at playing the violin.  Actually I dont really give a ripe red rat's rump whether Raimondo is a bigot or not, whether he has  Definite Problem with (some) Jews or if some Jews just have a Definte Problem with Raimondo, real or imagined. 

And is it not true that  "He is a Jew who is one Inwardly" [Romans 2.29]?

There are many of us who have been anti-war Republicans most of our lives who are not neoconservatives.  Some call us paleoconservatives but I think that Buchanan is a paleocon while I am more of an anarcho-libertarian sort of a Republican.  But I digress.

The main issue is that the Republican party moved away from its traditional conservative anti-war base.  The Democrat party is the War Party and should be expected to continue and expand all of the wars of Imperialistic Amerikan Aggression in all parts of the world until they either run out of money or some other limiting factor forces the end of the Empire.  If the beneficent part of the GOP (anti-war conservatism) is atrophied, then there is no need for the GOP to encumber the ground.  "McBama" offers no choice to the voter so they vote for the change in hope that it might be better, most knowing full well that it won't.
 

So the death of the GOP being the hope of the GOP, it seems like a good thing to me.

She was sort of apologetic and said that she had to ask me to take it off, so I did.  It sounded like she was concerned that wearing the button may have been considered electioneering.

Anon, you seem very hostile toward anti-Semitics, "anti-(anti-semitic)".  Doesn't it make you a Bigot if you are prejudiced against anti-semitics?  

(BTW, you might find it interesting that the avian Loon belongs to the genus Urinator, from urinari in the original sense of diving or plunging into water.  Aint that a pisser?)

I don't know much about Semitism or anti-Semitism, whether avian or demented, or blame, whether fatuous or by fatwa.  Please help me to see the relevance here.  The article is not about bigotry.  Your insistence on nonbigotry (as defined by you) is like expecting your accountant to good at playing the violin.  Actually I dont really give a ripe red rat's rump whether Raimondo is a bigot or not, whether he has  Definite Problem with (some) Jews or if some Jews just have a Definte Problem with Raimondo, real or imagined. 

And is it not true that  "He is a Jew who is one Inwardly" [Romans 2.29]?

RK, reading some of your posts makes me feel like taking a shower.

Actually I dont really give a ripe red rat's rump whether Raimondo is a bigot or not

Then might I cheerfully suggest that you go straight to hell, or Stormfront, or something other than here, where I suspect most folks *do* care whether or not bigots are being quoted here, and where your defense of Justin Raimondo is causing a catastrophic plummeting of whatever respect you might have earlier had.

A humourless bunch at times it seems.

I'd suggest that if you took a dump on a church altar in the middle of a worship service, you'd get the same "humorless" reaction to your lame-ass follow-up jokes. And, like here, the problem wouldn't be them, it would be you.

Can't you see that rejecting someone's ideas on the basis of an accusation of bigotry, is indeed bigotry in itself.?

If I had a dime for every time some swastika-kisser whined that after being slapped down in a public forum for defending bigotry, I could stack them to the moon. You're getting no traction at all on the in-defense-of-bigotry angle. I'd suggest you give it up.

The end of professing others to be a bigot is to ultimately define truth as bigotry

Ah, so your new stance is not that Raimondo isn't a crackpot anti-Semite, but that he's telling the truth? That he's right about the nefarious Jews destroying the GOP? I don't think that's the road you want to go down.

Ummm... let's get this straight.  Instead of simply saying that most people don't consider bigoted comments to be appropriate here, you're saying that no poster should be able to quote anyone who's ever said objectionable things elsewhere?  That sounds a lot like the ad hominem fallacy - "Person A makes claim X.  There is something objectionable about Person A.  Therefore claim X is false."

I thought it was just bad phrasing in the quoted  section. Of course, you are right, but I thought that the clown was saying  that in direct response to the dude quoting the bigoted guy in a reverant fashion. I might be off though.

I understand. However, if David Duke makes a tenuous argument that happens to be against the leaders of a movement that are predominantly African American, I'm probably going to question the source as well.

Also, I thought by quoting directly, it would be clear what I was responding to. This isn't a sport or competition. Or at least it isn't to me.

Are neoconservatives well-meaning and capable people who are doing a tremendous service for America and the World because they are helping to turning back the tide of Radical Islamofascist Terrorists? 

Is it good that they have the fortitude and backbone to continue their efforts despite the changeable winds of public opinion, and persistent accusations against them of imperialism, warmongering, and fiscal irresponsibility?

Or are the Real Terrorists in Washington, DC?

Are the greatest threats to our liberty, safety, security, life, & pursuit of goodness in some far-off land? 

Or are the real threats to our well-being right here at home?

Just Wondering.

RK

God bless Urbana City Council.

Oh, that's right, I'd forgotten. Wayward -- who, you'll notice, I could name but don't -- reserves the right to inspect the logs and out you at will if that's what she thinks it'll take to win her point against you. Charming stuff, no?

Want the last word, wayward? It seems to mean a lot to you. Go ahead and take it.

Actually, I can't see the logs here - IP hasn't made them publicly viewable.  The writing style was what gave it away.

The writing style was what gave it away.

Agreed - the characteristic double-hyphens and the "OMG ANTI-SEMITISM!!!!" helped a lot.