Open Thread (10/14/2008)

Posted October 14th, 2008 at 04:33 AM by IlliniPundit
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Tuesday, October 14, 2008.

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On October 14th, 2008 at 09:29 AM, Kevin Fanning (not verified) said:

* Tomorrow at 4:30 pm I will be hosting a debate on the merits of a Constitutional Convention for my master’s program in conjunction with the Institute of Government and Public Affairs.

The debate will feature two experts on state politics and governance, Lt. Gov. Pat Quinn and Kevin Semlow, director of state legislation for the Illinois Farm Bureau. It will be held in Room 100 of Gregory Hall, 810 S. Wright St., on the Urbana-Champaign campus. Admission is free and the event is open to the public. Come on by if you're in the area. 

On October 14th, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Warrior said:

From the News-Gazette:

"Because of our economic situation, we are in uncharted territory," Jakobsson said. "I oppose tax increases. WE need to prepare for some belt tightening."

"The fiscal condition in the state is going to get worse," Calabrese said. "I favor going from a flat tax to a progressive tax if we have a state constitutional convention."

Why is the Democrat promising to hold the line on taxes and spending while the Republican pushes progressive taxation?

On October 14th, 2008 at 10:18 AM, Ralph Langenheim (not verified) said:

"The effort to create heaven on earth invariably produces hell."  Karl Popper.  Ralph Langenheim

redstatewannabe's picture
On October 14th, 2008 at 12:40 PM, redstatewannabe said:

The fiscal condition in the state is going to get worse," Calabrese said. "I favor going from a flat tax to a progressive tax if we have a state constitutional convention."

Why is the Democrat promising to hold the line on taxes and spending while the Republican pushes progressive taxation?

this is exactly why I oppose the con-con.  The restraints on our state income tax are the best current defense we have against higher tax rates, because nobody wants to raise taxes on the poor.

Regarding Frank vs. Naomi, she has the superior position, but as long as she votes for the current Dem leadership, her opinion doesn't matter.

On October 14th, 2008 at 12:45 PM, Dane said:

Sorry off topic--

Ralph, a week or so ago you offered up a quote that I loved by Herman Melville. Can you tell what that quote was from? The only thing I ever read by him was some fishing story or something like that.

"A man mouths hard words and thinks he understands hard things"  That sure can apply to a lot of situations...

On October 14th, 2008 at 12:56 PM, Anonymous (not verified) said:

"For once, Surgeon Wedge, you use the only term that can be
employed; and let me avail myself of this opportunity to say to
you, young gentlemen, that a man of true science"--expanding his
shallow chest a little--"uses but few hard words, and those only
when none other will answer his purpose; whereas the smatterer in
science"--slightly glancing toward Wedge--"thinks, that by
mouthing hard words, he proves that he understands hard things.
Let this sink deep in your minds, young gentlemen; and, Surgeon
Wedge "--with a stiff bow--"permit me to submit the reflection
to yourself. ... "

-- White Jacket, or the World on a Man-of-War

On October 14th, 2008 at 01:28 PM, Frank.Calabrese (not verified) said:

The News-Gazette made an error, Rep. Jakobsson clearly stated at the forum that she supports, and voted for, a progressive state income tax.  My emphasis was fiscal discipline. 

 

redstatewannabe's picture
On October 14th, 2008 at 01:47 PM, redstatewannabe said:

good to hear, Frank.

redstatewannabe's picture
On October 14th, 2008 at 02:01 PM, redstatewannabe said:

how long ago was it when the experts were telling us the $5 per gallon gas was right around the corner?  (I wonder how many lost their shirts in the futures market making that bet?)

Oil falls below $80 on demand, recession concerns

IlliniPundit's picture
On October 14th, 2008 at 02:03 PM, IlliniPundit said:

I think we need a Federal bailout for the oil companies.  Think of how badly they're hurting right now - I bet they can hardly pay their mortgages....

On October 14th, 2008 at 02:06 PM, Bruce Byrd said:

After yesterdays nice gain,,,,,market is off almost 300 today,,,,,after Bush told of bank buyout plans,,,,,who can figure.

redstatewannabe's picture
On October 14th, 2008 at 02:41 PM, redstatewannabe said:

if you haven't seen Jay Nordlinger's reports from Iraq, I strongly encourage you to read all 5 parts.  It will be time well spent.

akibare's picture
On October 14th, 2008 at 03:27 PM, akibare said:

If the market rises, it always falls some right afterward because people sell to "capture their profit" (not sure the appropriate term).  Hence the zig-zag.

 

Kevin Fanning - do you know if that debate (audio) will be archived on the internet anywhere?

Oil Man's picture
On October 14th, 2008 at 03:29 PM, Oil Man said:

Oil prices were only above $60.00 a barrel prior to 1871, then again in during the late 1970's early 80's, then when Bush/Chaney/Rumsfield ordered the invasion of IRAQ to get those WMD's.  Since then world developement especially China and India together with civil disorder in many parts of the world has kept prices high. 

RSW---The only speculators who probably lost out were those large private and government retirement funds which a lot of folks are in.

On October 14th, 2008 at 04:31 PM, Anonymous (not verified) said:

Did they ever find Julia Rietz' husband's gun?  It's been quite some time and I haven't heard anything about it.  I suppose it's probably best not to mention anything until after the elections.

On October 14th, 2008 at 05:16 PM, Anonymous (not verified) said:

The National Review, founded by William F. Buckley, just kicked out William F. Buckley's son for daring say the obvious: the Democrats have a better candidate this year.

IlliniPundit's picture
On October 14th, 2008 at 05:21 PM, IlliniPundit said:

Really?

On October 14th, 2008 at 06:18 PM, Ralph Langenheim (not verified) said:

The Herman Melville quote was lifted from, "Wit and Wisdom", The Week,Nov. 9, 2007, p. 21.  They referenced the DesMoines Register.  Not very scholarly on my part or on their's  Ralph Langenheim

On October 14th, 2008 at 06:27 PM, Bruce Byrd said:

That is kind of like in Young Frankenstein, when Gene Wilder asks Marty Feldman the name of the person whose brain he brought,,,Abe---normal.

On October 15th, 2008 at 04:45 AM, PropertyRights said:

I am getting a tired of people telling me how bad the Republicans have messed up the country... expecting the Demacrats to be the Messiahs, when we live in a State that's been so screwed up by the Democrats.. and Obama has been so politcally attached to Emil Jones... the biggest screw artist besides the Governor, maybe more so. The President is a Crappy Republican and the Governor and Emil Jones are Crappy Democrats... Is it possible that we could even get elected officials who spent MORE time on unimportant/or unfinanceable crap and neglect the REAL isues than these guys?? The answer, sorrowfully, is probably YES!

I'm not saying McCain is all roses either.(Keating, and S&L bailout).. Just that both candidates have their skeletons....

Until we figure out how identify GOOD candidates, from those who just keep their s**t quiet til it's too late.. We're always going to be screwed.

Issues people, Not Parties... Plans! Not verbage! The parties cannot be trusted on their faces !!! Republicans for bigger Gov't, and Democrats for Corporate Welfare... WTF?!?!?! Neither Party is going to "save us" without input from the other side or other sides.

I tend to prefer the Congress and the White House to be of opposing parties myself... but maybe that's just me..  then things seem to need bi-partisan support.. but that's no insurance either.. The financial mess we're in seems to support that.

When one party is in full control, they just tow the party line, increase their own power, and good ideas be damned.

I'd be more trusting of a candidate that said "I'm gonna tax the crap outta everybody and not increase spending at all for four years"

It wouldn't work, to get elected OR to fix the economy, but I'd trust them better than either of the candidates we have. I'd just be happy with someone who said " Lots of things are needed, but NOW isn't the time to burden ourselves with new spending... for the Rich OR the Poor!"

If we could get the National Debt down by %60... or pick a number.. How much could we afford to spend on WELL ANYTHING? Healthcare/Welfare/Social Security/Roads/ Name it?? Some generation(s) are going to have to pay for it... might as well be us..

During the Reagan years we were growing at a rate that could have paid down a lot of stuff.. Place the blame wherever you want, but did we do it? NO! We HAD a Democrat Congress then.. and a Republican in the White House... Biden was there... McCain was there... Kennedy was there... Hell, Strom Thurmond was there... And there was even a "Balanced Buget Amendment" passed... did it do any good?

JFK had it right... ASK NOT, WHAT YOUR COUNTRY CAN DO FOR YOU, ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR COUNTRY!!

We ALL need to suck it up, and PAY.... THE NATIONAL DEBT.... or we're ALL of us together, DOOMED!

Hey, How about this.. %100 tax CREDIT for donating to pay down the National Debt.. Where's THAT fund?

 

Just venting in the wee hours...

 

Oil Man's picture
On October 15th, 2008 at 09:44 AM, Oil Man said:

You would be well served to vent about the Illinois GOP as well since they are not without blame for the state's condition.

On October 15th, 2008 at 06:05 PM, PropertyRights said:

Whatever.... I'm just saying that Party allegience, for it's own sake, is for suckers.