Today's News-Gazette:
The Champaign school district and its teachers' union reached a tentative contract agreement Wednesday night.
They reached the agreement after four and a half hours of negotiating, with the help of a federal mediator. It was the third time the two sides had met with the mediator.
The main issue that had to be resolved Wednesday was pay raises for teachers. Neither side released details of the three-year agreement.
Will details be released before the Board votes on the contract?
That I'm aware of, School Boards and unions never release package details until after ratification happens on both sides. Before the harping starts, this is not unique to Unit 4 nor is it unique to teachers contracts.
I can say now that we accomplished together what was best for both sides and we did so within the framework of our budget. Our teachers have worked and continue to work hard in Unit 4 and deserve the best. Our test scores particularly at the elementary and middle schools have risen dramatically in the last three years. Our ACT scores are the highest in the county except for Uni High(I believe they are some of the highest in the country) and a good number of those kids got their elementary and middle school educations right in Unit 4!
Dave Tomlinson, President
Unit 4 Board of Education
"That I'm aware of, School Boards and unions never release package details until after ratification happens on both sides. Before the harping starts, this is not unique to Unit 4 nor is it unique to teachers contracts."
OK. I'm just one person, but I don't really understand need for the lack of transparency, even if everybody does it this way.
"I can say now that we accomplished together what was best for both sides and we did so within the framework of our budget."
Great! Then certainly the public will support it, so why not share the details with the very community with whom the District has talked so much about re-connecting?
(I know, I know - that's not how it's done; the sniping from the ignorant masses will derail negotiations; etc. etc. Doesn't mean I have to like it.)
I have always felt that the packages of the teachers or for that matter all the employees attached in the education sector is very low. I am saying it from the fact that my parents both were teachers in high school before retiring. If we compare the responsibility factor and the effort they are putting in alot more as compared to other multinational companies where the work is so sagregated that all you are doing all day is sitting in front of a computer , drinking cup of tea or coffee and having fun.
I hope the negotiations between School Boards and unions went in favor of the teachers and there demands met.
John
How much do you make, Gordy?
"How much do you make, Gordy?"
When you you start paying me with your property taxes, then that should become public information.
I will not share details before the union ratifies the contract. I might before the board votes.
Dave
Teacher and other employee salaries are certainly public records. Negotiations details are not per the open meetings act.
I can tell you what I make as school board president :)
"I will not share details before the union ratifies the contract. I might before the board votes."
That's fair enough.
I'm really not asking for any individual salaries. Even for public officials, I largely feel that's none of my business. But I think the broader details of the agreement (raises, benefits, expected cost to the District over the life of the contract, etc.) absolutely should be made available to the public prior to Board approving it.
Evidently not many agree with me. Won't be the last time, I'm sure. <shrugs>
Thanks for the responses, though, Dave. I do think the Board and District are moving (or at least trying to move) in the right direction.
Once again the community and its kids will get the shaft. Teachers give much...and get much in return; probably too much. Unit 4's schedule has only one or two full weeks between now and the holiday break. Almost every week there is a late start, early dismissal, half day, or entire day off. Most are for teacher development, etc. These union contracts include so much fluff and so much extra compensation...not to mention the incredible pay scales (especially when adjusted for a true annualized salary) and benefits beyond what most private sector employees receive. Given the performance of the school district, the unions should be embarrassed by their members' performance. The unions and districts should be refunding money to tax payers given their abject failure to accomplish basic education goals. I know when/if the terms are made public, I will once again be offended and angered by the complete lack of leadership, integrity and accountability of the school board.
A listing of individual salaries enhances the possibility of seeing if there is equity in pay, both for time served, degrees achieved, and sex, along with seeing what is the percentage difference between teacher salaries and those of the administration. An aggragate number allows much too much to be hiden from the public.
Pattsi Petrie
If you go to Champion news, you can see the top salaries in Unit 4 for 2007:
http://www.championnews.net/district.php?did=91&year=2007&sort=salary
If we know what the percentage of the pay raise is, it's pretty easy to figure out what the cost of the agreement will be. Also, i think Culver gets the same raise as whatever the teachers negotiate.
These union contracts include so much fluff and so much extra compensation...not to mention the incredible pay scales (especially when adjusted for a true annualized salary) and benefits beyond what most private sector employees receive.
Oh yeah, primary and secondary education is where it's at. Those fat cats are just rolling in the dough. That's why so many people have quit their private sector jobs to become teachers.
Adjusting for a "true annualized salary" is stupid. How many jobs will hire 3-month employees at the salaries they currently make? And it's not as if the teachers just sit on their butts in the Bahamas for the summer. Most are planning the next school year, attending seminars, etc.
I have had 3 weeks off this year. I have currently upgraded to 80 hour weeks. And I've had to mourn a kid and take two punches this week.
I'm not complaining--I chose this job over the hundreds of other professions I would have been world-class in. It's truly what I enjoy most.
But I always wonder the motivation of those who trash teachers. It's probably one of the most challenging jobs in the world on a daily basis. It is the job that most concretely helps all areas of the country simultaneously--public safety, the economy, health care, etc. And no, I don't get Summers off. I don't call in sick. I get up earlier and come home later. The only person I know who works longer hours is my wife--who is training to be a doctor.
Now, I understand that this will be taken as bragging/arrogance whatever. But I'm only responding to this irritating meme about how easy teachers have it. By all means, come to my school and start work--there are plenty of opportunities if you have the empathy, poise, courage, expertise, content knowledge and work ethic to do the job.
thought police,
no they aren't. if you're suggesting that teachers spend anywhere near 40 hours per week in the off season preparing, etc. you are smoking crack. take a look at the salaries and retirement packages...very few teachers are on welfare and most enjoy retirement at 50-55 years old.
again, the larger point being that teachers in unit 4 should be getting pay cuts. performance is at an all-time low, student scores are at an all-time low and the school board rewards this by throwing more money at them and the union. what a deal.
no they aren't. if you're suggesting that teachers spend anywhere near 40 hours per week in the off season preparing, etc. you are smoking crack. take a look at the salaries and retirement packages...very few teachers are on welfare and most enjoy retirement at 50-55 years old
What off-season? I've disclosed my life. How many days off do you get a year? How many hours a week do you work? TP may be smoking crack (;)), but TP is also correct.
your logic escapes me. clearly my point was about aggregate performance vs rewards. your personal situation is moot. so is mine. if you can't figure that out then it certainly goes a long way toward explaining the poor performance in the classroom.
if you're suggesting that teachers spend anywhere near 40 hours per week in the off season preparing, etc. you are smoking crack.
This is what you said. No, it was not clear, and if that was your intent it was horrendously communicated. It also threw out a bunch of assertions directly contradicted by the board member's cited data without explaining what criteria you were judging performance on. This suggests that you were merely looking to attack teachers, and your most recent comment supports that argument.
Of course, maybe you merely miscommunicated. But if that's the extent of your ability to have a reasonable conversation, it explains why you couldn't ever teach.
wow. let's assume that all teachers are like xian. they are the first ones there in the morning and the last to leave, and they have empathy, poise, courage, expertise, content knowledge and work ethic to do the job. And they work all summer long preparing for the next school year. if we assume all of this to be true as xian and TP would have us think...then they really, really, really suck at their jobs. look at the performance.
Anon,
What is it that you do for a living? Seriously, I think it would add to the debate. For that matter, what is it that you do IP? Who is your employer?
performance is at an all-time low, student scores are at an all-time low and the school board rewards this by throwing more money at them and the union.
Hmm. I think your logic escapes me. What are your sources for all-time low performance? I've found this, which indicates that the schools have drastically improved over the past few years.
Show us some evidence of "all-time low" performance/scores to back up your assertion. Without any evidence, you're just making things up.
I also don't know what anonymous thinks "throwing money at teachers and their union" constitutes. The vast majority of teachers' compensation has fallen WAY behind inflation and comparable private sector jobs in the last decade.
I could make double what I do for half the effort in the private sector. But I might end up trolling anonymously on internet boards--a fate worse than death.
hmmm...manipulated data from the state board and unions...very reliable. comparing adjusted test scores against "standards" that keep moving lower. look at ACT performance, graduation rates, truancy rates, college admissions rates...they tell a different story.
hmmm...manipulated data from the state board and unions...very reliable. comparing adjusted test scores against "standards" that keep moving lower.
Yep, one huge conspiracy. So, when Unit 4 outperforms the state average in these tests, is that part of the conspiracy too?
look at ACT performance, graduation rates, truancy rates, college admissions rates...they tell a different story.
ACT performance - above the state average, little-to-no variation between 2006 and 2007
Graduation rates - above the state average, greatly increased (92.4% to 96%) between 2006 and 2007
Truancy rates - higher (worse) than the state average, but dropout rates still less than the state
College admissions rate - I can't readily find these, care to share them with us?
So, it looks like you're just making things up. Or you're not very good with numbers.
Oh, let me just add this:
Besides outperforming the state in nearly all categories, the Unit 4 teachers are paid about 10% less than the state average.
How, exactly, are they deserving of a paycut?
Ah, screw the troll. FWIW, I agree with you IP. Obviously there are timing issues of when something can be conveyed to the public, but I support full public disclosure in all public matters. It even pisses me off that the Supreme Court refuses to be broadcast on CSPAN.
If you want to, I'm sure you can find my salary ;)
I just looked at the web page containing the Unit 4 salaries. I have no sense of what is the USA average or a comparable community. Nonetheless, many, many of those salaries are impressive and higher than many UIUC assistant professors for 9 months work. The superintendent's salary is questionably high and certainly out of scale with the others in administration.
Pattsi Petrie
My salary is published in the paper every year. How much do you make, Gordy?
On September 25th, 2008 at 09:45 PM, Anonymous (not verified) said:
My salary is published in the paper every year. How much do you make, Gordy?
Huh? Where does the newspaper publish the salary of someone called "Anonymous?"
"My salary is published in the paper every year. How much do you make, Gordy?"
Not enough. ;-)
But a s I said above, when you start paying me with your property taxes, then my salary will be (and should be) public information. That said, I have mixed feelings about publishing individual teacher's/employee's salaries.
But, also as I said above, that's not the issue here, at leat for me. My interest is in the public being able to discuss the broad terms of the new contract before approval by the School Board. This is a public action by a public body using public funds, and I think (at least) the general terms should be public prior to the Board approving them.
Probably the same place I can find the salary for "Wayward."
I guess I'm not being blunt enough. Where do you work, Gordy? Are you telling me that your place of employment gains no benefit from public tax dollars?
"I guess I'm not being blunt enough. Where do you work, Gordy? Are you telling me that your place of employment gains no benefit from public tax dollars?"
I guess I'm not being blunt enough either.
First, the amount of government work my company does is small, but it's still FOIA-able, as almost all government contracts are, and as this teachers' contract will be. Given that it's public information, I see no reason to withhold it until after ratification. Certainly that indicates a distrust of the very public with which the Unit 4 Board has pledged for more than year to re-connect.
Second, I could care less about individual salaries, as I've said repeatedly. But the public deserves the right to comment on the broad outlines of this agreement before it is ratified by the Board, as the public is responsible for paying for it. Given that everyone (those "in the know" anyway) is convinced this is a very good agreement, I would think that the Board and union would both welcome the public's support as a way to enhance the community's support of the district.
Greg Novak here - I was not part of the negotiating process this time around - first time since 1981 I missed out ;-) Only two Board members can be part of the actual process and Dave Tomlinson and Arlene Blank got the task this time.
Several thoughts - to misquote Yogi Berra "It ain't Over Till Its Over"
First - there is not a contract yet - there exist a stack of TA's (Tenatively Accepted) agreements. The negotiating process is to try to reach agreement on items, TA them and out them aside - items are removed from the table - but nothing goes into effect until EVERYTHING is done. At this point in time both teams are reviewing all the TA's and comparing notes - this is the time that I used to hate because one all too often finds out that one said said SHALL while the other said MAY - or that one side thinks that the language said all teachers of MORE than X years - while the other side thinks it said all teachers of X years..
Now when that gets down - I will be glad to second Dave and release details to the public - at the same time that the CFT releases its details to the membership. By tradition Unit Four negotiations are not held in the media - it does not make the progess more transparent - but it does stop either side from making stands that they may need to retreat from.
Unit Four's salary structure is sadly out of date - I know cause I helped build it during the 1980's and 1990's - at a time when 70% of Unit Fours teachers had Masters degrees or better - and 15 or more years of experience and 90% of the district had tenure. Those days are gone - I think that only 50% have masters degrees, experience is down to less than ten years - and only 50% of the staff has tenure.
We have taken steps to fix this problem - but I have some work to do - will get back on later
On the article on the Consent Degree this morning in the News Gazette
My opinion -one of seven members
NO VOLUNTARY EXTENSION
If the judge extends it - then Sam Grant said it best
I WILL FIGHT IT OUT ON THIS LINE IF IT TAKES ALL SUMMER
Any extension at the judges order can and MUST be appealed - up to and including the Supreme Court in Washington
My personal .02
Greg
Greg Novak
From today's article in the N-g:
He praised Culver's leadership. McDade noted that only two of the principals in the district who were in place when Culver took over in 2002 remain in their buildings.
"That suggests to me a willingness to command your troops and to take action when your troops aren't doing what you expect them to do," McDade said.
Seriously? We are now saying that principal turnover is a good thing? To me that's a red flag. You have several former Unit 4 employees doing great jobs in leadership positions in other districts. Why couldn't we keep them? Or more to the point, why did they leave?
This is a joke and I hope the school board does everything in its power to end this consent decree and the $2 million price tag per year that comes with it. Test scores are up. A good faith effort has been made to add seats north of University. Let's take that money we're spending on the consent decree and put it in the classroom where it will directly impact student achievement. We need more teachers who can work one on one with students who are falling behind, and I'd rather spend the money on that rather than legal fees. I'd rather upgrade the facilities and put technology like smartboards in all the schools rather than pay for 3-4 more years of the consent decree.
The consent decree has been used for job security for more than a few individuals. It's time to get rid of it and all of these administrators. Clean house, bring in a sensible administration and put someone in charge of accountability to make sure that achievement for african american students continues.
Interesting topic since I am enrolling my soon to be 3 year old daughter in Unit 4. I have a typical son who is in a Catholic school but since they can't support my daughter's special needs we go to Early Childhood.
In the short month we have been working with the school I have learned:
Everyone who has come into contact with us thus far, social worker, support staff, therapist are all 100% committed to my daughter having all that she needs to thrive. All of them have understood her needs - complex as they are - and are willing and excited to help her.
Administration - I am not so sure about. It was iffy if my child would have a one-to-one aide to help her for the 2 hours she is in school and I know that I am her advocate to help them understand. I will know more after my meeting with the Administration level tomorrow.
The aide will make just over $9 an hour. I know the teachers make a living but it will never be enough to truly account for the time and energy they are giving my girl - and she isn't even there yet. They will help this little girl achieve and be all that she can be - but I am a big part of their team.
I think parents should receive a score in all of the ACT performance, graduation rates, truancy rates, college admissions rates...if you want to "tell a story" then factor in a parental score. I'm involved - is everyone? I doubt it and that is manipulation at it's best. Start at home if you want to point fingers cause teachers and schools can't fix what is broken at birth.
.
It is interesting that the N-G editorial today parallels IP's original posting in this thread. Pattsi Petrie
Question: Who pays for the consent decree if the Judge decides to continue it? We pay to fight it, but to we also have to pay the legal fee's for the other side of the issue as well?, or do they have to find a funding base to pay for the continuation of the decree?
Here is the NG editorial on the subject: