Open Thread (5/19/2008)

Re the imploding National GOP, Charles Crist, Governor of Florida had this to say - We need to, as a party, go back to our roots, if you will, make sure we understand we're the party of Abraham Lincoln, the party of Teddy Roosevelt, the party of Ronald Reagan, who had that wonderful optimism that people looked toward and were excited about and understood that there was greater hope, greater opportunity for the future.  Inspiring words.  Few of us Republicans should disagree.  Incredibly, Crist does an about face to the patently absurd suggestion that we may find the embodiment of Republican principles in J.S. McCain,  a non-sequitur to Crist's preamble.

Brave New Films released "The Real McCain 2" on YouTube yesterday, Sunday May 18.  It has been on You Tube for 23 hours and has gotten more than 391,000 views and about 7700 diggs.  See what the buzz is about:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c

Wow.   http://blog.nrcc.org/comment.cfm?entry_id=400

Some excerpts:

I'm 90% positive that I will not vote for McCain in November...The only way to guarantee my vote for a Republican presidential candidate is for you to get McCain off the ticket. Is that even still possible? ... my differences with the Libertarians are more palatable than my differences with McCain.
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The party is so detached from reality I can't see it re-attaching. More government to fix a broken government justs grows it. You simply don't get it. Go vote yourselves another raise.

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I am a Conservative and have always voted Republican. I served as an officer in the local Republican party for years and volunteered in numerous campaigns. However, I am fed up with the gutless Rhinos in office. I feel I no longer have a political party. For the first time, I seriously doubt I will vote in the Presidential election. I don't see any real difference between McCain, Clinton and Obama. McCain really alienated me with his liberal stance on amnesty and the border. Sure, you are coming out with some gimmicky plan now to try to win over the Conservative base of the party. It's too little, too late. PLUS, I don't believe anything you all say. Your actions while in office have told the real story.

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The Republican Partys "Solutions and a Positive Agenda" may sound good to the main stream media but it sounds like BS to me

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The Whigs disappeared in history like frost on a sunny day, and now it is the Republicans turn. The Republican leadership does not care what the base thinks and wants to follow the money. I am convinced that my Party is too far gone to save, and that the soul of this Party,(a commitment to nationalism, lawfulness, the Constitution, and personal liberty) has been replaced by love of big government and trans-national globalism. I will vote for individual conservatives, if they are Republican, but the Party will get no money, no support for McCain, and no loyalty as long as they follow this course. I will vote for Bob Barr, if I can, and pray that the election machines will actually tally my vote. I will pray that the next conservative Party to rise in the ashes of the Republican Party will learn from our mistakes.

Yawn.  The video is a quick-hit, hack-job from a Michael Moore wannabe.  It doesn't take a lot of skill to juxtapose snippets of public comments to suit a particular political agenda.  Is Obama an idiot because he said he's visited "57 states", all but one,  "Alaska and Hawaii?"  You can believe what you will but remember:

Ant. Mark you this, Bassanio,
The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.
An evil soul, producing holy witness,
Is like a villain with a smiling cheek,
A goodly apple rotten at the heart
O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!

Act I. Scene III. The Merchant of Venice, by William Shakespeare ( http://absoluteshakespeare.com/plays/merchant_of_venice/a1s3.htm )

"Yawn.  The video is a quick-hit, hack-job from a Michael Moore wannabe."

I disagree.  This video is quite effective.  It uses McCain's well-documented confusion and varying positions from the last year or so to illustrate how this guy has been getting a free ride from the press.  I expect that ride will end soon now that the Democratic contest is nearly over. 

And it's now up over 500k views---you gotta love the internet.

Ron Paul buzz job.

On May 19th, 2008 at 06:13 PM, Run4cvrlib said:

Ron Paul buzz job.

I thought it was just more anti-McCain than pro-Paul, demonstrating the sticky deep dung that the msGOP is in, apart from anything to do with Dr. Paul, per se.  (...and the vid has 771,544 views in 2 days and about 9000 diggs.  It shows how popular McCain is [NOT!] among young people.) 

Now this article from the Nolan Chart (maybe you found it already r4cl) is interesting

"The Republican Party is in serious trouble. Republicans are losing seats in Congress and John McCain is trying his best to differentiate himself from President Bush. Why then does the GOP pretend it has no youth support? Why is the GOP in denial over its roots? Why have so many young people started watching and posting YouTube videos of Barry Goldwater, Ronald Reagan and William F. Buckley?  Word on the street is that almost 75,000 people showed up for an Obama rally this weekend in Oregon. It's not that amazing when you consider Senator Obama's blind support from the liberal mainstream media. We Ron Paul supporters could give Republicans that kind of turnout too, if only the establishment GOP would acknowledge us and our admiration for the true principles of our party. Instead, they play the violin like Nero did as his empire crumbled and burned around him.  We support Ron Paul and we're the new GOP. We're here to help you and we have a state of the art lifeboat that's worth millions. Will you really turn us away and choose to drown?"  (read more)

I agree with Paul on some issues... its where I disagree that I think he's not viable, not realistic, and a jurassicon who'd probably be happier with the Articles of Confederation than the Constitution.

And I sure as hell don't see how somebody who got dismal support during the GOP primary is going to be the nation's popular savior come november even if the GOP decides to ditch McCain and (in what would be the most mind boggling move in history) decide to nominate a guy who has never won any State in the primaries, nor even come in a close second, ever, and generally only wins a small fraction of support in any of them, especially primaries.  If Paul is the hope America is looking for, they sure have a funny way of showing it.  Meanwhile the three GOP candidates who got the bulk of the support in the primary all were in opposition to Paul on many of the issues Paul supporters think he's the only "true republican" on.... most of which would make him an ideal match for the Libertarian Party, where he is a much better fit, as Paul himself is well aware.  A guy who left the party over Reagan is highly unlikely to win over the GOP who consider Reagan the classic example of what modern Republicanism is all about.  Is it really any strange wonder why so many in the GOP considered him a joke and laughed at him so much?

And as much as the Ron Paul fans like to point to his latest support that amount to a small fraction of McCain's in the recent primaries as some sort of proof that McCain is unelectable and Paul is somehow an obvious popular choice... it doesn't make a lick of sense.  It's over.  He lost.  The best you get at this point is being able to say "we told you so" when Obama is sworn in.  Have fun with that.

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Glock21 Op/Ed

The defining issue of the 2008 election is the War, and it is the departure of the GOP from its traditional philosophy of non-aggression foreign policy that is destroying the Republican Party.  You cant have both small government and this foreign policy of imperialism such as the one invoked by current President with the blessing of Congress.   Reagan was mentioned...(watch and listen)...

Its not a matter of changing of the subject, Mr. Glock.  It is more a matter of paradigms and frames of reference.  You seem to think it is about candidates, which it is, but it is more about principles and ideas.   It is futile for the party of Theodore Roosevelt, Goldwater, and Reagan to try to claim that it hasnt lost its bearings, and maybe its marbles, too, when the best it can muster is liberal warmonger (& socialist-fascist) JSMcCain.  

You might be correct.  It may indeed be that the GOP is so totally enthralled by the warmongering rhetoric of the neoconservatives that there is nothing at all to do.  However, even you, sir, ought to be able to discover that Neoconservativism is a failed political philosophy that is hellbent on self-destruction, and it dont take no prophet to see that November 2008 can bring about a horrendous implosion of the GOP that will make 2006 look like 1994. It will be interesting to see what the GOP will look like after 11/08.  Also intriguing is the possibility of a Republican diaspora.

The national scourge Obamania does not derive its psychic energy solely from the attraction of a fake plastic PiedPiper.  Obamania is also fueled by disgust.

 "Its not a matter of changing of the subject, Mr. Glock.  It is more a matter of paradigms and frames of reference.  You seem to think it is about candidates, which it is, but it is more about principles and ideas."

It's a bit hard to take you seriously on principles and ideas when you have generally acted oblivious to the reality of your candidate's current chances... and even more so when your attacks on the candidate that won are so painfully nonsensical that it comes off as a list of contradictory buzz words: neo-conservative, liberal, warmongering, socialist, fascist, hellbent on self-destruction yet simultaneously imperialist, etc.  Further, you're trying to prop up Ron Paul on the popular image of Teddy Roosevelt after complaining of war mongering and imperialism?  And prop up Ron Paul on the popular image of Reagan, a guy Paul found so detestable that he left the Republican Party over his presidency?

It just doesn't strike me as a coherent attempt to convince others of better ideas, logic, philosophy, etc... it sounds like a rant, slinging manure on the things you dislike and whip cream on the things you do like, with little rhyme or reason. 

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Glock21 Op/Ed

Boon...   I was mainly alluding to rumors that Paul's delegates may try to protest during the convention, not suggesting those delegates aren't allowed to be seated at the convention, nor anything about anybody who'd be outside protesting in a "free speech area" cage.  And my regular misuse of the term "yahoo" is more along the lines of McCain calling everybody he talks to a jerk, I don't mean it literally.  Sorry for the confusing "Glockism."

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Glock21 Op/Ed

...liberal warmonger (& socialist-fascist) JSMcCain.

It's comedy like that that keeps me coming back here.

Why is it that Ron Paul supporters always refer to him as "Dr. Paul," but never Mr. Obama, Ms. Clinton, or Mr. McCain? Could it be that they are trying to appeal to the authority of the honorific?

I couldn't make this stuff up ... http://chambana.craigslist.org/com/690136167.html

"The socialist-fascist wants to forcibly subvert the will and personal property of the individual (including his life itself) and reroute it to the collective will and use of the nanny state."

This all sounds very familiar.  Hmmm.  Oh wait, that's right, we already had this conversation once.  :-)

There is a fascinating exposition of both sides of this debate at the Wikipedia article "Fascism and ideology."  It clearly shows a number of the arguments both for equating socialism with fascism and for distinguishing between the two, as well as demonstrating the inherent difficulties of attempting to do either.

I detect a strong whiff of "no true Scotsman" in that last post, to be honest.  "No true conservative would be for war..."

You're right that "liberal warmongering" should not be an oxymoron. Fact is, both parties do it, and both parties will continue to do it, both parties depend on it, and both parties are perfectly happy to accept it, it's the American way by this point.   War is fundamental.