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Ok, Why is it my fault when trolls come and do stuff! I did not mean that as an invitation to do anything! I wanted to actually have a serious discussion about issues. If people want to make themselves look stupid while posting anonymously, so be it. But dont blame me for it! If you are tired of trolling, its within your power to restrict IP to just those who have an account! However that would be unfair. How about if they make a stupid comment, call them out on it and expose their stupidity! Please do not blame me when trolls come around when I post something! I was serious in that last sentence in my original post and yes, I did think it through before I posted it! Im not backing down from what I wrote and I will not apologize for it!
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Robert Dunn
Ex-Leftist, Born-Again Conservative American
IP is too thin skinned. IP makes the same mistakes most people make, over-reacting, taking things personally, etc, but refuses to accept responsibilty when he messes up. IP is quick to criticize but very, very very slow to apologize.
IP deletes faster than Stalin ever did. "I don't respond to anonymous posters" or some such drivel, when the "your name" defaults to "anonymous", creating strawmen out of otherwise thoughtful commenters who either prefer to be anonymous or just don't bother typing in a name, or "registering", then attacking them if IP disagrees, or worse, deleting the comments.
I understand the problem of anonymous trolls. The Urbana city council understands the problem of unpopular speech, the Supreme Court understands, the Founders understood. Counter unpopular speech with more speech, counter trolls by ignoring them. Some unpopular speech actually becomes popular, it just takes time. Deleting, which means censoring, is the way of State controlled regimes, not the way of the Land of the Free, the 1st Freedom being Freedom of Speech.
IP is a bully, pushing his way around saying "It's my blog, go start your own" but can't take even the slightest criticism. IP invites comments and then, if the commenter disagrees or takes IP to task, the commenter is insulted, or has his comments deleted, or is called names.
I used to read IP a lot. I used to comment. Sometimes I agreed with IP, sometimes not. After his latest turn of behavior, I simply deleted the bookmark, and only check rarely.
When I saw this thread, I had to weigh in.
IP has lost its luster for serious political comment and has devolved into schoolyard sniping. There are exceptions but they are all too rare now, and frankly not worth it.
To paraphrase IP, or perhaps even to quote IP, I have better things to do with my time.
You must have read my mind, but actually what I wanted to do was to rather make some statements on the pro- side.
I think that all of us have to realize that this is IP's blog and we are his guests. IP has a certain style and standard that he maintains since it is his blog. It takes a little while to learn what that style is because it's IP' style. IP does seem to strive to be fair in his criticisms actions and deletions. Sometimes writers get overly excited about ideas and themselves and each other and write things without understanding the audience or IP.
A lot of the bloggers have become sort of predictable in their responses but that is ok too. It is still worth reading and contributing occasionally.
"IP is a bully, pushing his way around saying "It's my blog, go start your own" but can't take even the slightest criticism."
Yes - which is why I started a thread specifically for people to criticize me.
How incredibly thin-skinned of me.
Thank you, Regnad Kcin, but it's not about the politics or the positions taken by commenters, it's about how IP has changed his personality here. I was an early, very early reader and commenter, I think February of 2005. I have a registered name which I use sometimes, not others.
IP has changed. Once welcoming divergent opinions, IP is now short tempered, impatient, and nearly humorless. I recall his banning Matt Varble. I didn't like Varble one bit, I didn't like his style, I didn't like his comments, I didn't like his threats to "out" IP (we all know who IP is now) but I thought banning Varble was the the first of a slippery slope, and I was right.
IP has changed. Illinipundit.com has changed. Gordy has changed, and none of it is for the better, none of it is growth.
Sure, it's his blog, he can do what he wants. And that is the rub. Stifling debate, even vigorous or over the top debate, is still stifling. In the free market of ideas, IP has become less free and more restrictive. And that, sir, is seldom good.
I disagree - deleting comments by trolls isn't restricting anyone. People still disagree with me here all the time, even insulting me, without moderation.
There is some truth in every criticism, and there is something to be learned no matter how unwelcome unfriendly poorly received off-the-wall or just plain stupid and obnoxious the criticism is. I do applaud IP for wanting to have some of this unwanted rain fall on him so that he can grow thereby. But I think he's doing OK whether I agree with him or not.
One thing I notice about blogging that it seems to be about declaration of ideas rather than the sorting out and assimilation of ideas. I see a lot of communication but I do indeed wonder how much of the communicating actually translates into positive changes in the world outside the cybersphere/blogosphere.
There is a notable exception - that fellow "anonymous" and his friend "(not verified)". Those 2 persons seem to be changing their attitudes so often it almost seems like they have multiple personalities.
IP, a suggestion: If you do not want to appear to be thin skinned, let this discussion take place without weighing in on this thread. This is one thread where you should just lurk, no matter what folks say.
I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords.
--
Glock21 Op/Ed
I said what I had to say, IP can do what he wants.
----
Robert Dunn
Ex-Leftist, Born-Again Conservative American
Boggle.
Glock, is that really you posting populist/borderline Marxist propoganda?
I'm speechless, and that takes some work.
Kem
Kem said: "I'm speechless, and that takes some work."
Just doing my part to help silence people. ;-)
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Glock21 Op/Ed
Ah, Glock21, a strident fellow with an excellent sense of humor, sees through the drivel from both the King and the subjects.
I vote for Glock21 to become the next IP (subject to the biweekly meeting and a 2/3 majority).
"IP, a suggestion: If you do not want to appear to be thin skinned, let this discussion take place without weighing in on this thread. This is one thread where you should just lurk, no matter what folks say."
I don't particularly care if I appear thin-skinned or not. If someone has constructive criticism of me, I'm all for it. My only requests are that it be kept here, rather than turning every thread into a discussion about me, and that the profanity be limited.
As to comment deletion: If someone wants to post the same inflammatory, inflammatory comments in every thread every day regardless of topic, I'm going to delete that, especially because it's not topical. And that's pretty much all I've been deleting for the past three or four months - the same two or three off-topic insults from the same person.
I'll also state that this blog isn't for everyone. The great thing about blogs is that there are millions of options. If you don't like me or you think I'm too heavy-handed in trying to keep things topical, I always say that someone should go read other blogs or start their own. I don't mean that in a dismissive way, I mean it as encouragment - go forth and do better than we do here. The more the merrier, and I'm happy to read and link to anyone's site if it can hold my interest.
We have two or three trolls on here - one who thinks I'm an imbecile for liking my health insurance, one who thinks nobody in Champaign County is qualified to serve on a school board, and one who is newly fixated on Frank Calabrese (Hi Justin!). Those two or three commenters are clearly trying to derail discussion, rather than engage in it. I have no qualms about unpublishing their comments, and those three account for almost 100 percent of all unpublished comments on here.
Comments are not deleted for disagreement with me. Go read just about any recent thread - Recall Fails is a good example. Lots of commenters disagreeing with me, several mocking the crap out of me, and one who induced me to make a correction to my original post. But nothing was unpublished just because they disagreed with me. So if you're trying to make the case that I'm removing comments simply because I disagree with them, you've got a difficult case to make.
In addition, I think all registered users can see comments I've unpublished, so they can act as a check to make sure I'm not going overboard.
Regardless, I'm always open to suggestions for how we can do things better. I've been doing this for about three and a half years, and it feels like a lifetime. I wake up every day and wonder why I bother continuing to spend my money and time on it. I know that I need to take a break, but I worry that if I take a break, I may never come back, and might just take the site down instead.
So, have at it. Rip away. Tell me how I can do better. Insist that I'm the biggest jerk you've ever seen. Or even ask for help setting up your own site that will kick this one's butt.
Whatever's on your mind, this is the place for it.
I'd cut IP some slack. Those of you who've done baby duty -- make that baby doody duty -- should have no trouble understanding a bit of crankiness.
*cough* *cough* *cough*...... ;)
You can't argue with traffic.
Thanks, IP.
There's a little bit of the Rush phenomenon here. You can't make thousands of posts and thousands of additional comments and not make some people upset or come across the right way. I don't think the site is much different than three years ago, but perhaps it is. I certainly think that there are far more people on here making attacks than before, probably because they are aware of the reach of the site.
Keep up the good work!
"I certainly think that there are far more people on here making attacks than before, probably because they are aware of the reach of the site." Like Shelden's relentless and so far completely ineffectual attacks on Inman and Beckett.
At least IP is better than that dick, John Bambenek, srsly.
--
j
Part-Time Pundit
Umm, off topic but Mr. Shelden's watchdog, whistle blowing has in fact helped elected officials and the community see more clearly the problems (and anyone who hasn't seen the problems coming were totally brain dead). Beating a dead horse more importantly belongs to the above poster for wanting to deny the significant issues with the nursing home and who were the critical people responsible.
That's why I stopped buying the tribune. those relentless attacks on blago. enough already!
I miss Bambenek, "Wanker of the Year", but Dunn is a close second. Sorry run4cvrlib, you have fallen to a distant third.
My complaint is that bombthrowing by anonymice and people with multiple accounts (one banned) hijack any attempt at constructive conversation.
--
j
Part-Time Pundit
Illinois Power is great !! Nothing to complain about
IP has seen the light !! He is moving from Urbana to Champaign
I think it's awesome that the thread is about IP and somehow the resident ego maniacs managed to make it about themselves.
I think Gordy's a great guy who should move his family to our block on the South Side and become a community organizer.
"I think Gordy's a great guy who should move his family to our block on the South Side and become a community organizer."
Thanks. I loved living in Hyde Park (for about a year-and-a-half) a long, long time ago, but I can't think of any place I'd rather be right now than Champaign-Urbana.
Yeah, we talk about moving back sometimes. I think it would be easier to do what we are doing in a smaller community, but we are going to do this as long as we can...
Thank you IP for being out there. I am a Champaign County native now living in Tennessee. It is great here, but I appreciate keepiong up with hometown area news. Keep up the good work!
Think of this blog as IP's living room. Isn't he gracious to invite us all here? Shouldn't we be thanking him for his hospitality and for providing us with such a lovely space in which to chat, instead of flinging mud all over the place? If my children threw such temper tantrums, I would be extremely embarrassed. They would have to sit in the corner.
Add my vote to the "Thanks, keep up the good work!" tally. I appreciate IP for all the work he's done, in maintaining this site (out of his own pocket) and for doing a pretty good job moderating the site. For me and all the other lurkers, thanks.
HG
This blog is an ideal forum for people of differing viewpoints to hash it out. Very difficult to find a place like this as most blogs or other form of media have such a clear bias one way or the other. Most become echo chambers. Fortunately, this blog has never been an echo chamber.
The nature of a place like this and discussions like the ones we have is that people will get testy on occasion. I see that as a good thing. People should be frustrated, they should be angry at times, and they should even stomp out of the room and refuse to come back for a week or two. As long as they come back eventually.
What is really not cool, imo, is to insult other people personally. We have all done it, of course, whether intentionally or not. Sometimes we mean to critique a person's argument but our critique sounds more like a personal slam. I think that is too bad, but not surprising. And really, it is just par-for-the-course with human beings discussing things of importance. It has always been like this, and it always will be like this.
In the meantime, I add my hearty thanks to Gordy for putting up with so much and for doing it with grace and style. While we rarely agree, I still feel nothing but respect, even if you have pulled up stakes and moved to West Urbana.
In reading through this thread, I remembered that it had been a while since I kicked anything into the site maintenance fund, a situation which I have now remedied. Hopefully, this will help with the fees for a month or two.
I strongly encourage everyone to make use of the PayPal button at the top right corner of the page.
IP sucks, and there's really no argument against that point.
His beliefs are the most shallow, party-driven drivel outside of talk radio.
Also, his threats to people to start their own site are going to haunt him. The Anon Army has recruited a few people to investigate this possibility. It may not happen today, tomorrow or even next month, but the mission has begun.
Thanks, D.Boon and Kevin.
IP needs sppel chekk
Go Whitesox!!!
IP is great, after a heated discussion with lots of bloviating and anger, I just walk away from the computer, take a walk, then down some Scotch, then fall asleep! Then I am less willing to be a popping jay!
----
Robert Dunn
Ex-Leftist, Born-Again Conservative American
PS, i do not think of IP as a father figure in my life. That would be creepy! Bambanek, maybe!!!
----
Robert Dunn
Ex-Leftist, Born-Again Conservative American
IP needs spel chek
Go Cubs
illinipunditposter
I like this site, and I think IP does a good job. I also find him to be a reasonable guy, even if he is wrong about 80% of the time.
Jay Rosenstein (not verified) said:
I like this site, and I think IP does a good job. I also find him to be a reasonable guy, even if he is wrong about 80% of the time.
IP, if you ever run for office, someone is going to use that 20% agreement rate against you in a primary. :)
Well as one who generally agrees with IP %80 of the time, I love this site..
I mostly lurk these days, but I visit daily, just to see what folks here think are the local issues of the day.
Thank You IP.
In my experience, IP himself is generally pretty even-handed in his posts and comments. He also expresses agreement with alternative points of view on occasion. Trolls are a fact of the internet, and I don't see anything wrong with the deletion of comments from someone that repeatedly tries to hijack threads and turn them into something else.
One thing that's interesting about internet communities is that when they become established their users tend to feel like co-owners. They're invested. Therefore they may take offense when the community's creator/moderator acts independently to alter the rules of the community. Two things to note about this: 1) it's a testament to this site that so many feel invested enough that they do get rubbed by such actions; and 2) without a leader in some sense of the word, most communities fail over time as they fall victim to endless trolling, namecalling, etc..
I think IP strikes a good balance between necessary control and user-centric decision-making. Heck, he even lets you create your own blog on IP.com and lets the community vote up (or down) posts in order to promote them to the front page of his site. That's a pretty open policy.
Now, after all of that, I can't leave without mentioning that I disagree with him more than I agree. But being on the Dem side of things, I've found that we have more points of agreement than I would have presumed without participating here. And that's a reason I continue to visit.
Thanks for the reminder about kicking in, Kevin! My household has now donated, too.
Geesh, Gordy! I take a couple of days off and you incite a riot? Don't you kids MAKE me stop this car!!!!
All joking aside, Gordy owns this site, he foots the bill for our fun and games and it is HIS call how it runs. If you walked into his house and started to urinate in the corner of his living room he'd probably ask you to stop. He might even ask you to leave. (If it was my living room I'd probably not be terribly civil about it...) His website should enjoy a similar level of respect in spite of the fact that it is a virtual living room.
On a personal note I have always respected this site and the regulars for allowing (dare I say encouraging?) participation of people who do hold different opinions. When Kev and I went to our first Pundit organized bash somebody made a comment that they know "what" we are but they accept us anyway. I still giggle at that one because this site does and did have a rep as being a "conservative" place in spite of letting "Eeeeevil libruls" hang out sometimes.
Gordy, you are doing fine as far as I can tell. Please know, I can't give a complete and personally accurate response because I know and respect your preference for "clean" language on here.
:)
Laura
Gordy should resign and give illinipundit over to Frank "the Tank" Calabrese!
I'm tired of this feel good thread. Gordy owns all rights to IP, he can do what he wants. He can shut it down if he wants, so play by his rules or don't play, simple as that.
I want to talk about the US using missles to blow up ambulances in Sadr City (whoops, missed again, almost hit the place that was the target on the other side of the hospital) and I want to talk about sending 7,000 more US troops to Afghanistan.
"On a personal note I have always respected this site and the regulars for allowing (dare I say encouraging?) participation of people who do hold different opinions."
You must have been asleep for months. There's nothing but bashing for people who hold certain opinions.
Also, what really drives people here batty is when they can't make an argument and they can't fall back on making a personal attack.
That's why the Anon Army is such a force here.
On May 3rd, 2008 at 05:57 PM, Nonymous (not verified) said:
I'm tired of this feel good thread. Gordy owns all rights to IP, he can do what he wants. He can shut it down if he wants, so play by his rules or don't play, simple as that.
I want to talk about the US using missles to blow up ambulances in Sadr City (whoops, missed again, almost hit the place that was the target on the other side of the hospital) and I want to talk about sending 7,000 more US troops to Afghanistan.
You might want to talk to Nancy Pelosi, Sen. Richard "Dick Turban" Sen. Obama, Harry Reid, Et Al. They are the ones wanting the war to end, as they are in charge of Congress and the money, but don't have the guts to turn the tap off and stop the funding.
Hey, I know this is supposed to be an insult, complain, comment, etc thread on IP... but is it okay to point out how sad and pathetic the "anon army" is coming from the perspective of an admin that had to deal with a real troll organization like the GNAA? The "anon army" honestly wouldn't rate as their droppings. One had international DDoS attacks and has an international reputation. You're one guy with a grudge against a local blog. You call yourself "a force?" Oh noes... the ph34r of your |337 ways has everyone shaking in their cyber boots! You call them names regularly... how... um... original... and... um... scary... err... something.
Honestly, I've seen a better cyber-crusade by a wheelchair bound mentally disabled kid out of Pasadena with too much time on his hands. Find yourself a girl, mate. Trolling ain't your thing. Oh noez... you might call me a pro-chief nutcase! omfgwtflolbbq... I tip my cyber-jackboots at thee.
Hugs and Kisses,
Glock21
"Hey, I know this is supposed to be an insult, complain, comment, etc thread"
A typically pathetic response at a typically pathetic site. Also, I almost have to hire a translator to read the last two-thirds of your post. Sad.
Dick Turban
Gotta love the right wing of the country.
Is it a full moon? Gergg usually transforms to a creature of the night when that happens.
Gregg, you are a (comment deleted by the author). Why don't you man up and go to Iraq or Afghanistan and put yourself on the lne, or are you a just a chicken hawk nattering nabob?
Answer: not even a nabob.
Glock21 for the new IP!
Coup. I wanna a coup!
Glock21, do you have a blog? I wanna waste my time there instead of this lame place, at least you have 1. perspective and 2. humor.
It's Tick Durban, the founder of a city in South Africa or Australia or New Zealand or Scotland or one of them foreign places.
Well, at least now all of you are getting a glimpse of the garbage I normally unpublish.
Anyone see anything of value in most of the comments made over the past 12 hours or so?
"Anyone see anything of value in most of the comments made over the past 12 hours or so?"
It influenced me to read the Flame Warriors list again. That's always fun.
--
Glock21 Op/Ed
"Well, at least now all of you are getting a glimpse of the garbage I normally unpublish.
Anyone see anything of value in most of the comments made over the past 12 hours or so?"
Certainly not in that post. You should unpublish more of your own stuff.
Gordy I am so sorry that people have come to act like this. If you don't have something nice to say, left unsaid or go to another blog. These people seem not to have any other things to do, or try and make the right mad. Not working. Keep up the good work, and God bless.
so gordy gets to bitch, whine, and complain about others? Why the fudge is he hijacking this thread and bitching about everyone else?
Sheesh!
More demonstrations of the power of the Anon Army.
I'd love to go scalp hunting in Iraq, Afganistan, Syria or where ever these cowards are hiding out. I'm too old 54, But there are plenty that are willing to go over there and clean up the trash!!! By the way, what kind of Col. are you??? a wanna be that wears the old military clothes or are you an auctioneer??, and what the hell is "lne"??????
Quick solution, Gordy. Ban anonymous posters and any posters with too many "g"s , "n"s or "x" in their name.
Is there a thread to complain about Robert Dunn?
If anyone has a thin skin it is Robert Dunn.
As for IP, I think he does a fine job. Keep up the good work! (Exclamation point used in honor of Robert Dunn!)
IP fears that morgellon-infested fluoridated paranoid conspiracy theorists in mauve spacecraft are plotting against him.
Lurkin, what the hell is that supposed to mean? By, the looks of it, your profession must be of a stalker, given your screenname! BTW, I am not thin-skinned, I just do not like being blamed for trolls. Unfortunately, we can not drop this issue and move on!
----
Robert Dunn
Ex-Leftist, Born-Again Conservative American
Also, I do not like being associated with such a prick as Bambanek! Im sorry, I am way above him on the being a total blowhard. Im number one and i do not understand what Bambanek has done to bump me down to number two. He has been absolutely no where in this thread in the orginal discussion about the Youth Vote that turned into a big hoedown!
Also, why isn't Bambanek taking any heat from IP? He could have been the troll that is causing IP to go completely bonkers!
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Robert Dunn
Ex-Leftist, Born-Again Conservative American
A lurker is someone who lurks. As in "doesn't post much".
Having met John Bambanek a few times, Mr. Dunn, I feel fairly confident in stating that Mr. Bambanek is probably not the troll around here. He's too busy doing other things, like working, spending time with his lovely wife, and chasing after his delightful child...lurking, maybe, but not trolling...
Somedays, however, I wonder about the relationship of the troll to other members of this site.
And then we have Mr. Dunn and the fearful Tri-Delts...
I don't post very often, but I read the site a lot. If you want to take the pulse of the community, the IP's the way to go. Keep up the good work.
One who hopes: I was joking about Bambanek!
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Robert Dunn
Ex-Leftist, Born-Again Conservative American
"If you want to take the pulse of the community, the IP's the way to go."
Just as long as you believe the community is filled with smoking, pro-Chief nutcases.
"Lurkin, what the hell is that supposed to mean? By, the looks of it, your profession must be of a stalker, given your screenname! BTW, I am not thin-skinned, I just do not like being blamed for trolls. Unfortunately, we can not drop this issue and move on!"
Ahhhhh....the response which proves the point.
Robert, don't you understand that your emotional outbursts and name calling is what invites trolls? That is IP was trying to point out to you and you got upset like a young child and threw a cyber tantrum. Maybe you should go back and re-read some of the threads where you posted and analyze them without getting emotional.
(Hat tip to xian for defining the term, "lurker")
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