Yesterday, the Urbana City Council Committee of the Whole decided to not censor Timothy Brumleve's anti-Semitic rants on UPTV much to the objections of the CU Jewish Community. As abhorrent as Mr. Brumleves views are, I happen to agree with the City Council on this. It is not any governments role to protect any community from speech that is offensive or hateful. As much as the Jewish community has suffered from anti-Semitism in the past, i am getting pretty annoyed at the constant alarmism everytime some oddball like Brumleve or Matt Hale comes out and instead of ignoring the idiot, we give the bigots all the attention they want by protesting them and trying to silence them. There is much to be criticized about UPTV, but banning all Third party programming because of one bad program is not the way to go. The only dissenter was Lynne Barnes against the majority. Heather Stevenson wisely said that it was the parents responsibility, not the City Council to determine what children should be watching!
Any thoughts on this?
Robert Dunn







The council made the right decision.
Agreed.
The solution is to make it clear that the videos are not endorsed by the city, and to get more people putting different opinions up there.
Is "hate speech" really covered under the 1st Amendment?
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Robert Dunn
Ex-Leftist, Born-Again Conservative American
"Is "hate speech" really covered under the 1st Amendment?"
Yes. Inciting violence, however, crosses that liberty threshold. Not sure how much a government entity is required to assist in distributing all forms of free speech through a gov't media outlet though. I'm sure there is all sorts of interesting case law on the subject.
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Glock21 Op/Ed
What if they came up with a policy saying that locally produced shows had priority at UPTV? That'd still be content-neutral, but someone who really wanted to could produce a bunch of their own shows and pre-empt the anti-Semitic crap.
Priority is one thing.
But if you tried to say that you can't have third-party shows on UPTV at all? You'd pretty much be cutting most of it off, as far as I know. Who is actually doing a Wayne's World style thing all on their own now?
Furthermore, I don't think the available slots are nearly filled. If it's a question of local content vs. someone putting a vid on, sure, go for the local content. But that's not the current situation.
The minute you start filtering for content you end up with a ton of bureaucracy to define just what crosses the line, endless approvals, just what rules would anyone here actually spell out? It'd be a mess, and all to counter the videos of one guy who clearly isn't representing the city, has a late night show, and is pretty much known to be a crackpot.
I'd say it's far easier for someone to get some of the pro-Jewish cultural and educational videos out there, and show those on the air. Or if you want to stick to the Holocaust, there are any number of actual scholarly works on the topic. Heck, aren't there movies that specifically pwn the denier set? Those would also be good.
Caveat: I don't have cable TV, so I don't know what the general lineup is. If I'm wrong and there is actually competition for space with most of the stuff being homemade, then perhaps a mere prioritization would bump his show off. But it doesn't seem that's the case.
Well, the argument is that programs such as Democracy Now! and "Gay TV" would be disallowed and banned. I have no problem with third party programming. Even if this guy sat before a camera and said how much he hates Jews, I dont think that the Jewish community would be silent about it. Quite frankly, I am getting annoyed at some organizations such as the ADL who suspects anti-Semitism in about everything. Remember the hoopla about the Passion of the Christ? I heard scare stories about potential pogroms in America because of Mel Gibsons film. The pogroms have yet to materialize and the Jewish leaders who made those charges have yet to apologize to their community and society at large for their insinuations. In my opinion, anti-Semitism is mostly on the fringe in American society! Rather than give these bigots attention by silencing them, why not just ignore them or expose them as idiots and cranks.
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Robert Dunn
Ex-Leftist, Born-Again Conservative American
akibare said: "The minute you start filtering for content you end up with a ton of bureaucracy to define just what crosses the line, endless approvals, just what rules would anyone here actually spell out?"
That's why I consider this a non-issue. It'd become a constant bureaucratic mess to jump into this mess. Agree whole-heartedly here.
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Glock21 Op/Ed
If you think that anti-semitism is on the fringe of our society, you aren't looking much. Maybe in terms of well educated people it is. But well educated people know not to listen to Brumleve's trash diatribes. The concern is the people it will influence: people ignorant on Jewish culture, religion, traditions. With freedom of speech he is entitled to voice his own opinions, but he isn't entitled to his own facts. You think they would hesitate to remove someone spewing racial hate at black people from the programming? I'm fairly certain that black-centered racism is a one way ticket off the air no matter what kind of programming it is, public or otherwise.
It's easy for people to sit around and defen his freedom of speech. Especially if it only impacts you in a principled manner. Think about the holocaust survivors in your community. How does it affect them? How about young children in schools, jewish children who's peers could see this. Parents have enough to censor with programming unsuitable for kids from networks like mtv. Shouldn't they be able to find comfort in the fact that their community programming promotes the kind of quality they can rest easy knowing their kids watch?
They say freedom of speech ends when it promotes violence, but who knows what kind of information it will take to invoke a hate crime from someone exposed to this propoganda?
The last time this country stood by while someone exercised their hateful "freedom of speech" regarding the jews in this manner, things escalated. Perhaps you've forgotten but it was called the Holocaust. And six million jews died.
True, but it is also not the role of gov't to provide the forum for such speech. They should drop the channel.
The government doesn't provide it. The cable company does, and charges subscribers to subsidize it.
An arrangement negotiated by a gov't body?
Insisted upon, yes. But the station isn't actually provided by the government. They control what's on it, but Comcast provides it.
I'm nitpicking, I know.
It is only 'censorship' (in the bad way) if government does it. If the station was privately run, like say WCIA, they would have no problem keeping trash off the air, right? That is why this garbage shows up on public access channels.
The gov't body that "insisted" on this channel should not insist upon it again - it causes more problems than it is worth.
Anonymous 10:26 says: "It's easy for people to sit around and defend his freedom of speech."
Indeed it is. Incidentally I don't think that racist programming about blacks would be an instant one-way ticket off the air either, and my response to it would be the same as my response to this - put more speech on the air.
What would your rules be, in PARTICULAR, for exactly how the city should decide what does and what doesn't make the cut to go on the air? Ideally any decision will not take a year to complete. Who will choose? The city council? Or will we need a different board? How will it be appointed? What happens when an issue is more controversial?
The minute the city (or whatever body) sets a precedent for stepping in, it will turn to a red-tape maze with endless arguing. So, in reality that's asking for the channel to be eliminated, or at the least public access to it be taken away. So all voices are stifled in the effort to stamp out this one guy. I don't think it's worth it, obviously we differ on that.
It's my personal opinion that kids should not be watching any sort of TV unsupervised, if they watch it at all. (I realize I'm in the minority on that one.)
Why is there not more Jewish programming on UPTV? Seems it's pretty easy to get videos and put them on the air? Perhaps an organized effort?
As for the channel, it's limited. The reason the government is enabling such a channel is because it's not possible for anyone to just start up a guerilla TV station or cable station in their own basement. Same goes for radio, there needs to be a largish group to apply for a station and maintain it, and then dole out individual slots. So there's WEFT and WRFU, a few slots on WILL, etc.
I suppose the city could give away the frequency to someone else and let it be private, but the issue of what gets on the air would still be there, and I don't know that the owner would be any more "reasonable" or that the new owner would have any sort of democratic input for applying for slots.
To the anonymous poster, can you give me some proof that anti-Semitism is not just a fringe element in society? Where is the mass of people in mainstream America who want a second Holocaust? Contrary to the Anti-Defamation League, anti-semitism is not as prevalent in America now than say in the Arab world!
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Robert Dunn
Ex-Leftist, Born-Again Conservative American
The Hillel does not go more than 18 months without being defamed, vandalized or graffited. I find that to be evidence of latent anti semitism. Perhaps that's what you call friendly relations? Also, mass public demand of a Holocaust is not the singular mark of latent anti-semitism. You don't have to demand to burn all the homosexuals to prove latent homophobia.
And regardless, this isn't defended by freedom of speech. If you will turn your attention to the following (source http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment01/) :
"Group Libel, Hate Speech .--In Beauharnais v. Illinois, 104 relying on dicta in past cases, 105 the Court upheld a state group libel law which made it unlawful to defame a race or class of people. The defendant had been convicted under this statute after he had distributed a leaflet, a part of which was in the form of a petition to his city government, taking a hard-line white supremacy position and calling for action to keep African Americans out of white neighborhoods. Justice Frankfurter for the Court sustained the statute along the following reasoning. Libel of an individual, he established, was a common-law crime and was now made criminal by statute in every State in the Union. These laws raise no constitutional difficulty because libel is within that class of speech which is not protected by the First Amendment. If an utterance directed at an individual may be the object of criminal sanctions, no good reason appears to deny a State the power to punish the same utterances when they are directed at a defined group, ''unless we can say that this is a willful and purposeless restriction unrelated to the peace and well-being of the State.'' 106 The Justice then reviewed the history of racial strife in Illinois to conclude that the legislature could reasonably fear substantial evils from unrestrained racial utterances. Neither did the Constitution require the State to accept a defense of truth, inasmuch as historically a defendant had to show not only truth but publication with good motives and for justifiable ends. 107 ''Libelous utterances not being within the area of constitutionally protected speech, it is unnecessary . . . to consider the issues behind the phrase 'clear and present danger.''' 108Beauharnais has little continuing vitality as precedent. Its holding, premised in part on the categorical exclusion of defamatory statements from First Amendment protection, has been substantially undercut by subsequent developments, not the least of which are the Court's subjection of defamation law to First Amendment challenge and its ringing endorsement of ''uninhibited, robust, and wide-open'' debate on public issues in New York Times Co. v. Sullivan. 109 In R. A. V. v. City of St. Paul, the Court, in an opinion by Justice Scalia, explained and qualified the categorical exclusions for defamation, obscenity, and fighting words. These categories of speech are not ''entirely invisible to the Constitution,'' but instead ''can, consistently with the First Amendment, be regulated because of their constitutionally proscribable content.'' 110 Content discrimination unrelated to that ''distinctively proscribable content'' runs afoul of the First Amendment. Therefore, the city's bias-motivated crime ordinance, interpreted as banning the use of fighting words known to offend on the basis of race, color, creed, religion, or gender, but not on such other possible bases as political affiliation, union membership, or homosexuality, was invalidated for its content discrimination.".... So, basically only because of a technicality is there not a precedent that would eliminate these messages today.I hope that clears up some of your questions. Perhaps you haven't lived as a Jewish minority in a small town, so you haven't encountered anti semitism, but please don't be so naive as to pretend that we as a culture have eliminated it.
Again though - what exact rules should be there for the city council to approve content?
"If you think that anti-semitism is on the fringe of our society, you aren't looking much. Maybe in terms of well educated people it is."
I find it far more a problem in academia than anywhere else. I also see a lot more of it lately around here.
So when will Michael Fuerst start a weekly Urbana Bozo report on UPTV ?
While I cannot present you with a full list of suggestions for city council, I think it certainly speaks for itself that there have been similar issues brought to court and it has been confirmed that defamatory speech is not protected. Additionally, my argument is not so much regarding exact regulation, but one of frustration that city council was so hasty to dismiss this issue as protected by free speech, without considering the ramifications. Though it may be a slippery slope to put up red tape censoring a show, in some cases it is the duty of council to realize that there is enough at stake that it may be time for such action. It may be the more difficult thing to do, but it would certainly be the right one. It's always a lot easier to argue on principles without considering the real effects on people and why sometimes there is a difference between what is legal and what is ethical. Urbana is a great community and should strive to go a bit beyond just upholding basic law, but making it a friendly and welcoming place for all of its citizens.
Perhaps it would also serve my purpose to explain that I am a political refugee of a country (Russia) where I've already seen the kind of effects hateful messages can have for Jewish people. It certainly was not easy leaving Russia in the early 90's to come to America. We went to the American embassy with a picture that said it all. A building where several jewish families lived, graffitied with a huge Star of David. The embassy saw this and it likely helped grant us permission to enter the United States. So in 1993 a representative of this country took a stand for my family and said that we should not have to live in a country that treats us with such hate. Allowing this man to go on is not a step forward for free speech, it is a step back for our ethical and sociopolitical climate.
As far as a regulation...we can start with the fact that taxpayers' money should not go to support a public access channel that accepts submissions with defamatory speech. The jewish citizens of our community that pay taxes shouldn't have to watch that money fund something so ignorant and hateful.
I'm pretty sure that liable and defamation are individual rather than a collective torts.
Dan Fielding: I think that a lot of academia is on the fringes of society. This fringe is more of the elite of society.
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Robert Dunn
Ex-Leftist, Born-Again Conservative American
Additionally, my argument is not so much regarding exact regulation, but one of frustration that city council was so hasty to dismiss this issue as protected by free speech, without considering the ramifications.
I don't get the sense that the council was hasty. They did ask for a legal review of the proposals made at the mid-April meeting, and they discovered what lots of other communities have discovered at the same juncture -- that you can't legally single out one show for its content. The city's legal counsel was given quite a grilling -- in effect he was asked, "why can't we break the law just a little bit and see what happens?" He was asked whether individual Jews can sue over a group defamation, and he said no.
I think they have considered the ramifications pretty seriously, and they're in a lose-lose-lose situation. Choice (a) was "leave the city open to a lawsuit it would almost certainly lose," choice (b) was "shut down a means of communication the community finds valuable," and choice (c) was "leave things as they are, and disappoint a lot of the Jewish community."
The issue is, how do you determine what speech is "defamatory" and what speech crosses the line? In the vast majority of cases opinions will NOT all agree on that, by any means, and so there will need to be some deliberation and a body to vote on it, etc.
I suppose there's room to disagree. But, I will still come down to preferring it be left open, because it seems to me that the only workable alternative is shutting it down altogether. There are few enough venues for public expression as it is.
Furthermore, I don't think the available slots are nearly filled. If it's a question of local content vs. someone putting a vid on, sure, go for the local content. But that's not the current situation.
Ah, bummer. In that case, I guess adjusting priorities wouldn't have much impact. I don't have a TV either at this point, so I've never seen any of the stuff in question (or anything on UPTV, for that matter).
almost everybody says they haven't seen the programs.---except for the jewish population and some council members. i wonder if anyone else ever watches it? i've flipped by it occasionally but it always looks idiotic to me and i just keep going.
I am concerned that you are even watching TV. Karl Marx once said that television is the opiate of the masses
illinipunditposter