From the Daily Illini:
The Champaign City Council voted 6-3 Tuesday night to pass an ordinance giving Mayor Gerald Schweighart the power to increase the entry age for University bars from 19 to 21 in "emergency" situations.
In order to enforce that power, the mayor must give Champaign bars 24 hours notice before implementing the age increase, meaning the act would be in anticipation of uncontrollable environments, not a reaction to them.
Discuss.
Schweighart's had a thing for booze for years. I remember watching him defend blue laws til he was blue in the face a decade ago when he was still a council member.
Never understood (other than more revenue for the bars) why 19-yos were allowed entry in the first place.
...To the point, what's an "emergency situation"? Halloween? A Bowl Game or Final Four appearance? The end of finals? Quad Day?
It's clearly about Unofficial Everybody Come To Champaign/Urbana And Puke On The Sidewalk Day.
Rob_N makes a good point about defining an "emergency situation" and I think it puts the mayor in a predictiment.
On the one hand, if he doesn't raise the bar age in anticipation of an "emergency situation" and all hell breaks loose, he will be blamed for not using his power. Yet, if he declares an "emergency situation" and it turns out not to be, he will be criticized for abusing his power.
What's a mayor/liquor commissioner to do?
Schweighart has indeed had a stiffy about booze for ages. While I think his stance is out of touch with reality, he hasn't till now done anything much about the obvious anomaly of the 19-year-old bar entry age. But every time I hear him talk about the need for more ordinances to regulate alcohol, I think about his laissez faire stance about smoking. Just a wee bit of hypocrisy there, no? The whole thing about "emergency situation" bothers me because it sounds like one of those statutory provisions that wound up getting struck down for being vague.
About the laws allowing underage people in bars, I can't help but wonder why Champaign doesn't set up ordinances allowing 19-and-up in bars only for bars that have clean records, and 21 and up for anyone else. I don't know what latitude the city has under state law, but given that they can set entry age, hours of service, type and number of licenses, one would hope they would have some degree of freedom to grant this privilege to those who deserve it.
Is this too reasonable?
JRR, your idea is not too reasonable, but it is based on the idea that the City is interested in enforcing the 21 year old drinking age.
As I understand it, the entry age is 19 in Champaign to provide a place for 19 and 20 years olds a place to socialize while being surrounded by alocohol without actually drinking alcohol, (wink wink).
Let's just criminalize everyone. To hell with teaching responsibility to young people, that sucks. Much better to make more and more laws. That way we can get more black sunglasses and cool radios and tasers and stuff so that the boys and girls in Champaign can play "Cops", and in Urbana they can erect a 120ft phallus to show the world just what this is all about.
Obviously, the "emergency" that this law is intended to deal with is Unofficial. The thing is, Unofficial isn't an emergency. An emergency situation is an unforseen situation that requires drastic action to prevent catastrophic consequences. We know that Unofficial will be happening again next year, mid-March. If the city government isn't able to plan ahead for a known event and act accordingly, all the "emergency" powers in the world won't help.
If you have followed this story, you will understand the seperate and distinct policy threads going on here. Let's take the first thread which is the 19 year old bar entry. We all agree that there will be underage drinking going on in private apartments and rides out to the country with a six pack. The point is the majority of the council believes that allowing socialization in a controlled environment is better than the unsupervised activity if it is disallowed.
The "emergency law" is a totally different thread. At the last unofficial St. Pat's day, about 1/2 the kids were not students, but were from out of town. This created extremely dangerous situations for these kids, but also prevented the controlled environment we mentioned. Some bar owners were responsible and would not admit anyone under 21. Thus the action of one particular bar owner, circumvented the intent of what was described in the first paragraph. It unfairly punished the U of I student who was under 21 The message was that these kids could celebrate unofficial in a corn field.
The reason this helps is that the "emergency situation" law requires notification of an "unofficial event" and a warning that the mayor has emergency powers to change the bar age. It is a a message to the bar owner that if he advertises a big unofficial, the mayor can give him a big unofficial kick in the pocketbook. By the way, the Student Senate supported both these propositions.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy this. Out-of-town people are not necessarily more unruly than homegrown kids. I don't see how Unofficial is any more "controlled" with locals vs. foreigners. I'm not all that familiar with liquor laws, but isn't it illegal to serve intoxicated persons? So, again, it seems these "dangerous" situations are a inadequate law enforcement issue.
New Orleans can handle Mardis Gras, with a lot drunker and a lot more unruly people, without declaring a state of emergency. It seems like we should be able to handle one day.
Of course 19 and 20 year olds will consume alcohol. They are away from home, living independently, and have access to 21+ friends who can purchase it for them. The next question we need to answer is "where will they drink it?".
It makes sense to acknowledge reality and let them drink it in a safe place. Its the same reason we allow unmarried people to purchase condoms.
We are the only nation so fixated on the notion that 19 and 20 year olds ought to be legally banned from consuming alcohol. It no wonder we have binge drinking. Is binge drinking as big a problem in the rest of the world where folks of this age have grown up with the understanding that they can drink in moderation without being barred by law?
The Puritans have done this to us. Imagine in your mind the image of Mayor Jerry in a Pilgrim outfit...
"It unfairly punished the U of I student who was under 21..."
How is one unfairly punished by being prevented from doing something illegal?
(i.e. I was driving behind a car going the speed limit on Windsor Road, which prevented me from going 50 m.p.h. and breaking the speed limit. Dang it! It's not fair!)
Maybe Mr. Maloney can sue the bar owner on behalf of the students for infringing on their legal right to break the law.
The police stats tell the story. Not one person under 21 yoa was arrested in a bar during unofficial. Many under 21's were arrested outside bars. Bars are safer. The issue should be safety, not revenue. The whole point of letting under 21's in bars is safety, they are confined, controlled, and are supposed to be monitored. Most bars do an excellent job monitoring under 21's, although a few kids slip through.Thsoe bars get fined or closed for a few days. No bar owner is willing to sell a few dollars worth of beer at the risk of a complete shut down for a day or two. No law ever put on the books has stopped under 21's from drinking. They will drink, the only question is, Where? This will absolutely positively be more dangerous next unofficial. Under 21's will drink at parties and the police cannot possibly monitor much less find every underage person frinking. Rapes will go up, fights will go up, and alcohol piisoning will go up. And perhaps drunk driving will go up, meaning you and me and every citizen is at greater risk. But it makes the cops happy and increases city revenue and that's all Jerry cares about. He doesn't care a thing about you getting your car slammed into by some drunken 19 year old.
UC IMC controllers are active in IP.com
Actually, Mr. Maloney is on both sides of this particular issue. I believe there are no policy absolutes, and if you want to know the truth, I was totally delighted to see my the Champaign Police close down Cochran's bar. I think he acted irresponsibly and created a dangerous situation for a lot of young people both here and from out of town. It is ugly when crowds get out of control. This creates totally dangerous situations for the Champaign Police Department when they have to go stop a riot with a lot of drunks. My son was the first officer on the scene of the High Dive riot. One of our officers got a 14 inch gash from a beer bottle breaking up that riot. This ended up with 50 officers from all over to stop it. It is true that my partner, who was a judge for 16 years and a former States Attorney defends people and business owners, but in my business, you do not have to like someone to defend them. We are talking about policy here, not what we do professionally. I might also add that I helped Frank Calabrese with some of the wording of the liquor commission suggestions. By the way, if you were at the 40th Anniversarly of Prairie Center, where my wife is the President of the Board of Directors, you would have seen Frank Calabrese, Assoicate Chancellor and the Dean of Students, at my wife's table. I think I know Mayor Swihardt too since his son lived next door to us and since he was a speaker at one of Topinka's fund raisers for me. So you see, there are people that are more than happy to discuss policy. Now have a nice day.
Mr. Maloney,
I am more than happy to discuss policy with you, but your extensive post failed to answer the question, "How is one unfairly punished by being prevented from doing something illegal?"
Additionally, in regards to the incident at the High Dive, is that an example of the safe environment provided by the 19 year old entry age?
Why is it that no other Big Ten campus has an entry age less than 21 and they don't have the private party drinking problem which is used as the reason for the lower entry age in Champaign?
We do agree on delighting in the closing of CO's during "unofficial". The Cochranes have made a lot of money off the lower entry age. Yet as the promoter of events like "unofficial", I see a contridiction with the supervised environments promised in return for the ability to allow 19 and 20 year olds enter their bars.
In 2004, a representative from up north proposed a house bill that would mandate all of the state of Illinois to only allow 21 and over into the bars. He discovered that only 4 towns in all of Illinois had this little 19 year-old bar entry age: Macomb, Carbondale, and you know the other two towns. He said he proposed the bill because he understood the entry age was a defacto allowance for underage drinking. The bill never made it out of committee as the liquor and beer distributors lined the pockets of committee members with campaign moola.
It's fascinating that the logic used to justify allowing the kids to enter the bars, ("They are going to drink anyway so might as well be at the bars where it's safer") is not applied to other recreational drugs. "They are going to smoke up anyway, so let's let them use cannibus at the hooka bar". "Well, they are going to shoot up anyway so let's pass out clean needles and clean heroin."
The arguments for letting the kids drink in the bars is another example of university students enjoying class priviledge granted by the police and government. If there was a bar in the north end serving underage drinkers, the S.W.A.T. teams would torch the place.
The arguments for letting the kids drink in the bars is another example of university students enjoying class priviledge granted by the police and government.
Because when I think Class Privilege, I think Macomb and Carbondale.
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"Another Anon with a worthless opinion" - Run4cvrlib on 2/2/08
"I guess I have little tolerance for people who just attack people just to do it and give no justification." - Run4cvrlib on 2/2/08
As someone who lives on campus, i would like to offer some personal insight. First, outside of Champaign-Urbana, one can not enter a bar unless they are 21. I found this out the hard way in California. All throughout the state of CA, it is 21 and over.
It is not just Unofficial that is a problem. It is every night on campus. Why should people who choose to either not drink or drink moderately suffer because of some kids who are totally plastered. The house that I live in has been vandalized, i have walked out in the morning seeing drunk kids passed out on the sidewalk in front. I wish that these pictures were shown to parents before they decided to fork over the now $20,000 a year. Maybe a video inside of Kams, Joes, or the new station can be shown to the parents so they can see what little Sally or Brad is doing with their hard earned money. This is sick, a college campus should be a place to learn. I would rather have these kids go out into the country. Then they can run the risk of pissing off a farmer and getting whats coming to them. I am also sickened by the fact that the University Police Department is not doing enough of its job when crimes such as vandalism, assaults, and public urination is taking place on my street. Saturday evening, I reported a noise disturbance from a frat house across the street, no officer came! There needs to be some change in Champaign in regards to law and order. We focus on the northend a little bit too much and need to crack down on campus.
I plan on speaking to the Champaign City Council on this issue!
Champaign needs to join the rest of the nation and raise its bar age back to 21. Im sorry, but the idea of underage kids in a bar so they will be controlled is the same as saying that someone who is 16 should be allowed into an adult bookstore as long as he is supervised and does not look at anything. What is the purpose of a bar, but to drink. People do not go to bars to just eat a sandwich. They go to also buy alcoholic beverages!
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Robert Dunn
Ex-Leftist, Born-Again Conservative American
"Then they can run the risk of pissing off a farmer and getting whats coming to them."
Good God, man! Robert, please give us a heads up when you plan on going into the council chambers to advise the council that people buy alcoholic beverages in bars. I'm going to tune in.
Your desire to have people drinking and driving around the country is certainly not one of your better ideas.
"I would rather have these kids go out into the country. Then they can run the risk of pissing off a farmer and getting whats coming to them."
Oh my.
Robert,
Would you consider modifying your signature to, "The Always Entertaining, Ex-Leftist, Born-Again Conservative American"?
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King... We are right to let 19-20s into the bars, it's the rest of the country that is wrong.
As a matter of fact people DO go into bars just to eat a a sandwich, watch the Big 10 network, play pinball, dance, watch bands, and otherwise socialize without necessarily drinking alcohol. This is WHY places like SOMA charge for water, because they are full of non-drinking dancers.
If we stopped letting them into bars, RD would STILL find drunk students on his lawn..
What makes anyone think that EVERY drunk student MUST have been in a bar.. or that ALL underage drinking MUST happen in bars. THOSE are the more naive thoughts.
better in the country than in urban areas? Those country folk got rifles. I think drunk frat boys would be an easy target!!! I do not want them killed obviously! Just shoot em in the family jewels! Or give them a Forrest Gump injury! But these kids ain't gettin no ice cream. "Lt. Dan, ICE CREAM. Instead of the screams being of WHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! in that obnoxious Ric Flair variety, a tortured scream of ARRRGGGGHHHH!!!! will sound throughout rural Champaign County. Pa looks at his young son and admonishes him, "Son, you better not be acting a fool like them here when you get to college." Unfortunately, we could not get away with that in the actual CU cities. Maybe we could just hire Boss Calabrase and get some Tommy Guns out here. "You frat and sorority smucks need to get in line outside, because you pissed off the Boss too many times, Capeesh?"
Wait, that can't be the scenario, poor Frankie would be caught between his constituency of uber wealthy, drunk frat boys and the family! BTW, if Frankie is elected, would his district office be in one of the Cochrane bars. Kams or even that rathole called Station 211? Maybe State Rep Calabrase would make Unofficial St. Patricks Day a state holiday! Go for it Frankie! Your bimbos in tri-Delta demand that you make Tacos and Tequila the official state party theme! Unofficial will be celebrated now on the State of the State Address day. Hmmm, i wonder what Governor Rod Blagojevich would say if severely intoxicated?
yup, I think Frank Calabrase plan for healing the bipartisan wounds is promising free Red Bull Vodkas to everyone for passing a budget on time. We could then get a bunch of drunk sorority girls do a wet T-Shirt contest for even passing a balanced budget! Would Emil Jones play Mike Madigan in beer pong? I would love to see Mike Frerichs down 8 shots of "Vegas Bombs." Only then, would Dan Fielding apologize to Mikie and say, hey looks like you and Alan Keyes are all right. Yeah, I think Chapin Rose would be up for doing the whole beer bong thingie. We could set up a dance floor where the state house floor is. Pat Quinn is doing Karoake to "Im bringing Sexy Back."
Oh my goodness.
I'd delete the two comments preceding this one, but the sheer idiocy of them speaks volumes.
To get the facts straight:
1) My family are all U of I Engineering grads, they are all nerds, not thugs
2) I am not rich. I grew up in an average fourth of an acre suburban home in Gurnee
3) I am not a 'fratty' guy. I am in a dorky fraternity.
4) Dear Anonymous, as your state representative, I would support Pat Quinn doing Karoake to "Im bringing Sexy Back.".
Dear Deputy:
So often when we consider policy we have to consider the seen as well as the unseen. There are very few among us that can imagine Cabrini Green, just like it is difficult to imagine the bar scene unless you are in the middle of what appeared to be a Chicago Street gang fight at the High Dive.
I never said that I was in favor of the 19 and 20 admit policy. What I did try to say was that it was a close case, after considering all the information from the City, the hospitals, and the treatment providers. If you consider what we do not see, the 19-20 admit (but cannot drink) probably is a good idea. And even if it is not a good idea, it is worthy of discussion in a serious manner. I sorry I demonstrated irritation with your previous post-old age I guess.
Frank, of course, represents the Student Senate. As the elected representativ on the Intergovermental Affairs Committee, he had an obligation to present the student view, just like he did on the Chief issue. Just like he will have to advocate for University of Illinois funding if he is elected.
Frank... great response. Keep up that attitude. Take the punches and roll with them.
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Glock21 Op/Ed
Dear Mr. Dunn:
I lived in Indiana (college town) for a year before I turned 21, and I was able to get into the bars with my legal I.D. showing my birthdate. Liquor stores--another issue; in this particular town the liquor stores had bouncers at the door checking I.D.s and refusing entry to those under 21. I have heard stories about hot girls--especially models and actresses-- getting into bars in New York City before they were 21, but by the time I got to NYC I was too old and too tired to check this out. I would be cautious about blanket statements regarding bar entry ages in other states.
Why is there no discussion here about the fact that in many European countries the legal age to consume alcohol is lower here in the U.S. From what I understand, they also have lower rates of binge drinking. Before anyone goes putting words in my mouth, I am NOT stating that they have lower rates of alcoholism, just lower rates of binge drinking.
I'm willing to compromise on the issue with MADD and the government: lower the drinking age to 16 or 18, and I'll agree to accept 0.00001 as the legal BAC for drunk driving charges.
Standing back, waiting for some folks to go ape sh*t...
Frankie, Frankie, how can you be in a "dorky fraternity" and not be a "fratty" guy? Lighten up dude, you need to get the student vote. That is how you do it. Cmon, lets go ape sh"t on this!
At your first Kegger fundraiser, IP can bartend! That will shut him up!
"I'm willing to compromise on the issue with MADD and the government: lower the drinking age to 16 or 18, and I'll agree to accept 0.00001 as the legal BAC for drunk driving charges."
I'd be OK with that, along with stiffer penalties for multiple DUI convictions.
"At your first Kegger fundraiser, IP can bartend! That will shut him up!"
Shut me up? About what? And why would bartending shut anyone up?
Ok, enough with the anonymous attacks on IP.
BTW, why was Station 211 attacked as well? They are an independent and struggling enterprise. They are not part of the Cochrane problem. I do think that a lot of these college kids will wisen up when they graduate and get jobs. Because they have to be at work each morning, they will not be partying all night.
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Robert Dunn
Ex-Leftist, Born-Again Conservative American
I overheard Frankie "bada bing" Calabrese speaking with Dunn. Apparently, Frankie stated his view of his fellow college students. Not very high. Apparently, Badi-Bing thinks that all college students drink. Guess what Calabrese, not everyone at UIUC drinks! Some of us actually do not want to waste good taxpayer and our parents dollars. We actually study hard and earn our good grades. Our good grades do not come from threats from our wealthy parents to deny more alumni donations if the kids gets in trouble. Good grief Calabrese, as a Republican, I am ashamed that you are my candidate. Good going Barickman, the 103rd district now has a permanent Democratic seat. We need some real candidates for petes sake, not some airhead fratboy! I am having a tough time enough trying to convince friends to become Republicans, but now Calabrese is now giving me reasons to join my friends. State Rep. Jacobbson, I have plenty of good stuff on this Frankie guy you should use.
Hey Naomi, you need any help from pissed off Republican in your district? I am willing to help! The fact that Frankie and Dunn are hanging out on the Quad togethers says enough!
hey, I heard that the Bimbo sorority, Tri-Delta just endorsed Calabrese and they are doing a commercial for Frankie? Are there any Tri-Deltas who read IP who care to comment about this development. Maybe Calabrese can have another "Tacos and Tequila" fundraiser for his campaign. Great way to get the Latino vote!
Ok, this is absolutely ridiculous! I guess Frank and I are being stalked by someone then who is a regular on IP! I did not know it was a crime to speak face to face with anyone on IP! Sorry, I guess I can not come to a single Republican or even Democratic function because some creep wants to right crap about it on IP!
I seriously do not think that Frank is in the mafia, so lay off that! I do not know what his ecomonic background, but I do know that he is not rich! He would not be at UIUC if he was as wealthy as people are saying.
As far as you not drinking, good for you! Whats your point?
Lastly, I seriously hope that Naomi is not dumb enough to accept your "help."
To the second anonymous person, most Greeks are not political! It is absolutely false that the Tri-Deltas have officially endorsed Frank Calabrese. I know some of the Tri-Deltas and I doubt most of them care about anything political! As far as having a "Tacos and Tequila" fundraiser for Calabrese, the Tri-Deltas probably would pass on that one! Leave those poor girls alone, they have suffered enough! Now, their names are once again dragged through the mud! I absolutely hate frats and sororities, but I am going to have to defend this one Greek house against stupidity!
BTW, Triple BOGGLE!!!!
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Robert Dunn
Ex-Leftist, Born-Again Conservative American
Best... gif... evar!!!
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Glock21 Op/Ed
IP, LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!
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Robert Dunn
Ex-Leftist, Born-Again Conservative American
Again, Gordy has hit the bottle once again? Gordy, you should hit up Joe;s dance floor around midnight. Its $2 on everything there.
Is Gordy saying that he is suicidal at the computer? I think that means he should give IlliniPundit over to Dan Fielding!
"Again, Gordy has hit the bottle once again?"
Once again? I never stopped.
I think most students don't drink
Ignore the Anon's Frank, many of them know very little and drink heavily. (not as much as Gordy) :-)
Frankie, Frankie, apparently, the booze has gotten you so confused that you do not realize that the student body of UIUC is primarily a bunch of alcoholics! Hey I thought it would be better for the new school symbol to be the Fighting Drunks! Our new logo could be an image of Gordy passed out at his computer. Keep the three in one, but just have a student act the way he does when he is at Kams or someplace else.
That would be fun, but then.... What the hell, Gordy should just be the new school symbol. But he has to be totally drunk everytime he comes out and dances the three in one!
"What the hell, Gordy should just be the new school symbol. But he has to be totally drunk everytime he comes out and dances the three in one!"
Chins and cheeks, baby. And I don't dance.
Frank, uhhh, most students don't drink. Yeah, its only two students on the entire campus that comes home drunk everynight! Maybe your fraternity is the only one that forbids alcohol consumption, I dont know.
Gordy as the new symbol of the U of I? Hmm, can we just put his image but with the Chief Headdress on the logo.
Chief IP replaces Chief Illiniwek! Well, maybe Run4cvrlib can do the dance instead of Gordy. What the heck would Gordy be doing instead? We know he would be totally intoxicated, thats already been established!
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Robert Dunn
Ex-Leftist, Born-Again Conservative American
"We know he would be totally intoxicated, thats already been established!"
Did someone amputate your sense of humor?
"New Orleans can handle Mardis Gras, with a lot drunker and a lot more unruly people, without declaring a state of emergency. It seems like we should be able to handle one day."
Yes, we all know there's no difference between C-U and a large metro area with a history of handling a large event.
You know, Los Angeles had the Olympics. If they can do it, so can we.
Other events coming soon to C-U using this "logic":
Woodstock
Bridge jumping
Lollapalooza
Super Bowl