From the Daily Illini:
Part of Campustown may soon be getting a makeover in order to become more developed and pedestrian-friendly.
The Champaign City Council gave instructions Tuesday night to move forward with a plan to work on Green Street. Since Green Street between Wright and Fourth streets has been worked on extensively in the past few years, the plan will, among other items, address the area from Fourth to First streets.
I missed this discussion--where's the money coming from?
I am curious if there were businesses involved in this University District Action Plan. Were any businesses represented in the discussion or input process or is this the beginning of an input process? Does anyone know?
Business tenants and consumers should equally influence these types of plans if it is going to be done correctly.
The University and the students should pay all of it. I'm tired of subsidizing Green street and the students with my tax money. The students are here only 8 or 9 months and trash the town as it is. Why should we have to pay extra so the student's have pretty streets and sidewalks to throw up on after they get drunk?
"The University and the students should pay all of it. I'm tired of subsidizing Green street and the students with my tax money. The students are here only 8 or 9 months and trash the town as it is. Why should we have to pay extra so the student's have pretty streets and sidewalks to throw up on after they get drunk?"
Because they're the largest economic stimulus in the town and county and region.
Anything that results in a sales tax increase is paid for by students and visitors. I suspect they are going to lean on businesses to make the area more attractive to business.
I guess it's the 900 million the state spends here so they can be here.
Thank God the government generates that money so that business can be here. The business community is very fortunate indeed.
"Thank God the government generates that money so that business can be here. The business community is very fortunate indeed."
Indeed! Were it not for government-funded higher education and the largely government-funded healthcare system, the open space between Bondville and West Urbana would be considerable!
Let's see...The Campustown business district collects sales tax revenue, mostly from consumers who earned the money in other towns and spend it here. Sales tax is the largest source of income for a city.
And we, the permanent residents of Champaign should be resentful?
I'm not sure what to think about this, but I will say that I would like for the City Council to think about areas of town other than the downtown and campustown. There are lots of items that need attention all over town, and while I understand the temptation to throw lots of money at these two areas, some of which is deserved, and some of which is not, I'd like to see some things done elsewhere.
there is an extra sales tax on food and drink in the campustown area, so ideally, those using the area are providing the money to rehabilitate it
that extra sales tax is levied ON the entire city, I believe, but is exclusively FOR campustown
Champaign Dweller 3:04:
I assume that you would also like the City to "throw some money", as you say, at repaving Bradley Avenue from Mattis to Clayton; preparing Curtis road for the new I-57 interchange, develop some programs for Garden Hill youth, build a Fire station by Zahnd park and reline the sanitary sewers near Clark Park, is that what your saying, instead of always just spending 100% in Campustown and Downtown?
West of WRight--I don't have any specific items in mind--I know that the City spends elsewhere, but they seem to spend an inordinate amount of time and money on downtown and Campustown. I understand you disagree--but this year the City said it doesn't have enough money to fix arterial streets, so why should more money be spent on Campustown while the arterial streets crumble?
Green Street is an arterial street; and the money isn't going to be spent this year. Its a long term plan that involes creating the proper zoning for Green from First to Fourth.
Every year ten thousand sets of parents visit UIUC and make a determination of whether they will be mailing checks into our community over the next four years. That money could go to DeKalb, Chapel Hill, Charleston or Ames. We need to compete for that investment so that UIUC continues to attract the best and the brightest. Oh, sure the school will be full regardless, but will it be sought after by the top students and will it attract the top researchers? This all impacts the economic health of Champaign in a manner that may not be noticed by the average homeowner, but it increases investment, employment and consumption.
The Campus needs to look inviting because it pays dividends to the community. A little facelift now and then is a small investment in the cash cow from which most blessings flow. If you think the phyical appearance of Campustown is not a factor in increasing the demand for our educational product we are selling, then you probably have not accompanied a teenager on a tour of campuses.
If you think the quaility of students we attract is immaterial economically, then compare the shopping district in Columbus with that in Ann Arbor.
If you think the quaility of students we attract is immaterial economically, then compare the shopping district in Columbus with that in Ann Arbor.
Please elaborate for us non-university types
40,000 student of average caliber [OSU] compared to 40,000 students of higher caliber [UM] makes a difference in the average income of student's families and also the ability to snare the nation's best professors. Top notch professors in turn attract research grants and they create patents.
It also attracts business to the Research Park, like Yahoo and business to the broader community, like Volition. They want to tap into the brightest students. Yahoo could have rented space cheaper in Macomb, but there is a reason the settled into Champaign.
So the Ann Arbor [UM] campus is gentrified and upscale and the Columbus [OSU] campus looks a little run down and scruffy. That all translates to the attraction to come to those campuses by the kids who get perfect scores on their SAT test and the brightest Professors, and they, in turn, enjoy greater economic success.
These are broad generalizations to be sure, but the economic impact is noticeable. When a kid who scored a top SAT test comes to town we want her to see Urban Outfitters and Starbucks, not Garcias and a porno store.
thank you
West of Wright
Absolutely spot on accurate. When I came down to the U of I in 1995 from the suburban wonderland just south of Naperville, I was a bit underwhelmed by the campus and the town in general. I came for the cheap pricetag and the solid academics.
(And, I confess, maybe just a little for the party scene.)
Times have changed. I have no doubt whatsoever that between the build-up on Prospect, the revamped mall, and the transformation of Green Street and downtown Champaign, I would have been a lot more excited about the U of I as a first choice school. Being able to attract the best and the brightest and make them want to stay is a crucial part of a University town's economy, and I have no complaints whatsoever about the cost of investment in that goal.
Kem
The people choosing U of I are not coming here for Starbucks. They are looking for a highly ranked degree with a minimum of cost. You could get rid of every corporate chain in campustown tomorrow, go back to funky little coffeehouses and bars, and the enrollment at UIUC wouldn't budge an inch. Nobody cares about Urban Outfitters, and nobody cares about Chipoltes. It doesn't matter, and you couldn't prove that it matters even if you tried.
What does matter is rent payments, which have gone up considerably since the new emphasis on gentrification and corporate development in campustown. In short, U of I has become less of a deal for the citizens of this state because it now costs a LOT more to put your junior or senior up in campus apartments.
And speaking of Ann Arbor as though it is a successful university because of gentrification is ludicrous. A degree from the Big M is marketable in any place in this country, and Ann Arbor continues to be a funky little town underneath all the corporate mistakes.
But don't even get me started on the idea that we need to attract people with "perfect SAT scores" over the average students. This mindset is so elitist, so unbelievably insulting that it literally undermines any of the other arguments you are making. If you seriously, honestly believe that a kid with a perfect SAT is going to choose U of I because of a Starbucks I would suggest you are out of your mind (try the Seibel center - that might be kind of a draw, eh?). But even beyond that is the idea that we redesign our entire town to appeal to this upper crust. This (dare I say it?) elite "creative class". Why has it become this town's job to bend over backwards for the privleged segments of our society, in the faint, desperate hope that they will choose HERE (golly, could it be?!) as a place to live their lives? Who gives a rat's ass if some wealthy investor likes our bars and restaurants, or not? There are a lot of people here who gladly pay their taxes and living in these towns because it is a safe, friendly, decent place to live. Why aren't we concerned about making their lives better?
When I came down to the U of I in 1995 from the suburban wonderland just south of Naperville, I was a bit underwhelmed by the campus and the town in general. I came for the cheap pricetag and the solid academics.
Exactly. Talk to some students some time. Nothing has changed.
Even Stevie Wonder can see plenty has changed.
On March 13th, 2008 at 11:41 AM, D. Boon said: "What does matter is rent payments, which have gone up considerably since the new emphasis on gentrification and corporate development in campustown. In short, U of I has become less of a deal for the citizens of this state because it now costs a LOT more to put your junior or senior up in campus apartments."
Why do you need to put them up in a campus apartment? Dorms are not exclusively for freshmen or sophomores; last i checked, you just have to be an enrolled student to be eligible for dorms. They're competively priced with off-campus apartments, especially when you take food costs into consideration. And if your junior or senior just has to live off-campus, why are rent in campustown? there are cheaper places off-campus, like in Urbana, on the other side of Lincoln Ave.
I agree with what I believe your general point is: that gentrification and corporate development is, in part, driving up campustown prices, for rent, food, parking, etc. But so what? It's not like people attending this school are locked into spending money in campustown. Students, and the families that support them, can find cheaper alternatives outside of campustown, for nearly everything save the bookstores like IUB, Folletts, and TIS.
HG
Students, and the families that support them, can find cheaper alternatives outside of campustown, for nearly everything save the bookstores like IUB, Folletts, and TIS.
Right. Which is probably one of the reasons the developers, who have sank so many millions into the campustown apartment complexes, are so eager to get the City to pay for a face lift.
Even Stevie Wonder can see plenty has changed.
I disagree. I don't have any poll numbers to support my theory, but I do work with a lot of U of I students and I have yet to hear one explain how falling in love with campustown was the deciding factor in their choice to come to UIUC. On the contrary, most have come to town to get a good degree at an affordable price. The desirability of campustown is not much of a factor either way. The only thing I have ever really heard about campustown are comments about unique, non-corporate joints like Murphy's, Papa Dels, and Espresso. I've yet to hear, and I doubt I will ever hear, someone explain that they were considering U of I and ISU and when they learned U of I now has a Starbucks, Chipolte, and Urban Outfitters, that was the deciding factor. Come on, I think we all know that notion is ridiculous.
People want a good degree at an affordable price. That is what UIUC has offered for generations. Oh, and they do probably want to party with their friends.
Now what the investors want? That is a whole different story.
Well, the Campustown has changed a lot since I moved to Champaign in 1984. For one thing, there's a ton of good ethnic food options now.
However, that occured anyway without any taxpayer or university investment or development. It was a natural outgrowth of a more diverse student body.
Of course, the main development of late is to make an education at UIUC completely out of the price range of many working class and middle class students. Perhaps that's why we are paying to put in crappy carbon copy stores that exist in every strip mall.
On March 13th, 2008 at 06:05 PM, D. Boon said: "Right. Which is probably one of the reasons the developers, who have sank so many millions into the campustown apartment complexes, are so eager to get the City to pay for a face lift."
I think you're probably correct regarding developers wanting the City to give campustown a facelift; but I don't think that's a function of campustown, specifically, being dilapidated or something. I think it's a function of developers being developers, and wanting a good return on their investment. To me, Developer A wanting the City to improve campustown is little different than Developer B wanting the City to improve downtown Champaign, be it the parking lot situation (which personally annoys me) or something else.
On a personal note, having arrived here as a student in 1999, I much, much prefer this version of campustown to the one that existed when i arrived as a newbie. the streets look cleaner and neater, the sidewalks aren't broken down and dirty, store fronts are generally nicer...it just looks better. whether or not it actually is better is a subjective judgment, i know, but i like this version more. However, I do miss some off the more local stores and shops that have left the campustown area, for whatever reason. I liked going to the Record Service, the music store just down from Zorba's, with that weird angled entrance; I do miss R&R's, even though it was a dive bar; I miss the Wendy's that used to be where Noodles is now...
Like Xian said, the biggest development in campustown (and the wider C-U area) is the increasing number of ethnic restaraunts; real ethnic restaraunts, not chains like Chipolte or Qdoba.
Thanks for the interesting discussion everyone...
HG
Yeah, I can't for the life of me understand what would possess a human being to eat at Chipotle instead of El Charro.
I remember there used to be a pretty authentic Mexican place (or as authentic as E. Central IL gets...) on Green St., near where the Pita Place is now. It was called El Desmadre, i think, and it was fantastic. massive menu, mostly in spanish, on the board above the cook area...great food, and it served beer a little bit longer than the bars did, so we could leave Murphy's prior to last call, and have one or two more cervesas while eating some damn good food. Their nachoes were quite good, as were their soft tacos. as blasphemous as this may sound to some, it was better than La Bamba's...good times, good times.
Having never been to El Charro, is it the place north of Basmati, on First?
HG
That's why they make strawberry, chocolate and vanilla. No, Chipolte and Starbucks aren't for everyone, but they are packed. Not all students can afford to live in a high-rise. Most won't be scoring perfect on the SAT.
But a clean, safe, improved campus business district helps close the deal for this campus, and with every incremental step to a more desired school, we get a more sought-after student population, and more investors opening shop in the research park, or elsewhere in the community.
The folks in town who think the university's success or failure has no impact on their life, or who actually resent the University, perhaps don't realize the amount of money pouring into our town from state government and parents all over the world.
with every incremental step to a more desired school, we get a more sought-after student population, and more investors opening shop in the research park, or elsewhere in the community.
Ugh. While I don't resent the university, as my two degrees from it can attest, I also don't buy this idea that the university should be seeking after a certain student population. The U of I has traditionally been a place where a middle-class family could get an excellent, reasonably priced, college education. What exactly is wrong with that, again?
Personally, I don't really have a problem with sprucing up campustown. It will undoubtedly make the experience of campustown more pleasant for all of us. My problem lies with the justification for the sprucing up: attracting certain kinds of students, helping developers make more money, using tax dollars for yet-another-campustown project when many of the other areas of town are being neglected. All because we believe better sidewalks will attract more students?
Moreover, there is just a general lack of creativity and ingenuity in the local governments. It is so damned stereotypical and boring to have a starbucks, a chipoltes or a potbellys in campustown. It is a sign of a government that doesn't know how to encourage and support local businesses. And relying on corporate entities to support the business community in your town is a losing arrangement. How many managers from Starbucks end up at the Chamber of Commerce meetings? How many Potbelly's owners are a part of the Knights of Columbus in town?
fwiw - I have also become enamored with the ethnic food choices in campustown. Ari-Rang is a personal favorite, with some of the best Dolsot Bi-bim-bop this side of Chicago. Somehow I doubt that restaurant is what "the developers' are looking for though.
Garcia's kicks ass. Or at least it used to; my pizza days are fewer.
The Second Street area is getting sad -- lots of closed businesses, or as I like to call them, GOP administration monuments.
D. Boon 8:35;
You want UIUC to appeal to the average student, but you like Ar-Ri-Rang? Every time I go there I am surrounded by student who have traveled around the world to get a UIUC education.
There is no Ai-Ri-Rang at EIU or WIU that's for sure, because they don't draw 6,000 Asian students paying out of state tuition.
I want UIUC to have a healthy mix of In-state students and the brightest out-of-state students from around the nation and around the world. Right now we have the highest percentage of in-state students of any Big Ten school, over 90%. That's not good for revenue and its not good for quality of educational experience. Indiana has just 65% in-state.
We are dumbing down UIUC to make the parents in the suburbs happy, just like we have dumbed down our high schools. Why not send the kids who are average to EIU, WIU, NIU and SIU and fill up UIUC is the very best?
Garcia's is a pig sty, but they did paint the interior in 1986 so they have that going for them. Its a piece of white bread with artificial tomato product on it.
There's plenty of in-state Korean American students from the Chicago burbs that love Arirang etc too - not to deny that there are lots of international students also, of course.
I like Ari Rang, but slightly prefer Woori Jib.
West of Wright said:
Green Street is an arterial street;
It (Green Street) used to be, but with the redesign and reconstruction of Green, 6th, wright over to 4th street, it was designed as a local street and design features were purposely added to make it very difficult to use those streets for thru arterial travel.
In fact, when they were first opened to public travel, out of old habit, I inadvertently traveled down every one way street the wrong way and made a few illegal turns to the point that I called an assistant City Engineer friend of mine and asked him to place my name on the records as having been the first to break every traffic pattern in the new plan.
With the new design, if a person turns south on any street between Wright and 4th, they cannot access the East Campus area without traveling all the way to Pennsylvania. Before the new plan, they simply turned East on John, to Wright, then North to Green and East to the East campus area. So the campus area is not arterial by any shape of the imagination.
I have not seen the proposed improvements, what are they in general, or where can I find them on the Internet? I have suspicions that we are going to spend money breaking something that is already broken.
To that end, I am, and shall always remain;
Rex Bradfield
THANK YOU REX!
Finally, someone else agrees that the Green St. "improvements" broke any sort of traffic flow on campus! I realize that was the purpose, to a point, but it is really screwed up. I didn't realize how bad it was until I started working down here a little over a year ago. Wright St., south of Green St. has basically been turned over to the MTD and both 6th St. and Green St. are bottlenecks. One day I saw an eighteen wheeler park in front of TIS while the driver made his delivery to the bookstore. I watched traffic back up for twenty minutes before I had to return to my office because my lunch hour was ending. Once you cross over into Urbana, Green St. opens back up into four lanes and is once again able to handle the traffic. I'm waiting for the day that an ambulance or fire truck is unable to get to an emergency becasue of traffic gridlock and some "forward thinking" politician will call for the widening of Green St. and 6th St. to four lanes and making 6th St. and Wright St. alternating one way streets. It will of course be paid by us, the tax payers, but you already have another thread discussing waste of tax payer money by a local government body.
To that end, I am and will remain,
A frustrated resident
You are welcome.
Remember, the direction given to that Engineer for those design changes was made by the City Council and Mayor. It was not Engineering's idea to make those changes, but simply to offer the ideas for the Politically suggested changes
To that end, I am, and shall always remain;
Rex Bradfield
Have no fear, Rex. I realize that the engineer is only the messenger.
Engineers are our friends, it takes a politician to actually screw things up.
You can take comfort in that you probably weren't elected because you are overqualified, (read too smart), for the job.
We are dumbing down UIUC to make the parents in the suburbs happy, just like we have dumbed down our high schools. Why not send the kids who are average to EIU, WIU, NIU and SIU and fill up UIUC is the very best?
Stated by someone who needs to feel that the student loans he is paying off really means something.
Stated by someone who needs to feel that the student loans he is paying off really means something.
Observed by someone who conjugates a singular verb with a plural noun. The irony is killing me.
Kem
D. Boon,
You missed my point. I was underwhelmed by the run down feel of the campus, which was both ugly and involved a fair amount of pedestrian pain in the middle of August (not the best time for a visit to our fair city). The U of I wasn't my first choice school, but that was largely because I was just a lot more impressed with Washington University's campus. For architecture, both schools were pretty much even, academically-- and money wasn't really a deciding factor for me.
If I were in the same market today, I think the U of I would have been my first choice school. Replacing the roach-infested mess that was Garcia's with a trendy chocolatier makes a difference to a suburban 17-year-old... that's all I'm saying.
Kem
08:56 AM, Anonymous
Thanks for the kind words.
To that end, I am, and shall always remain;
Rex Bradfield