So it seems that the No Child Left Behind Act is finally coming to fruition. I have recently learned that Urbana High School has officially failed to make Adequate Yearly Progress for the fifth year in a row. Because of this dubious distinction, UHS is currently required to create a “restructuring plan” that is designed to fundamentally change the way learning happens at the school. My understanding is that if UHS fails to make adequate yearly progress again this year the restructuring plan (which must be approved by the Illinois State Board of Education) will go into effect sometime next year.
The restructuring plan will be created by the school district, presumably a team that consists of administrators and teachers. There is little doubt that such a plan would include drastic changes, including the possibility of the firing of the entire administrative team and perhaps 30-50% of the teaching staff. It is also possible that the school could be turned into a charter school, or turned over to a for-profit entity like Edison schools. In other words, this school is in deep doo-doo.
But what is more interesting is the fact that UHS is not unique. Hundreds of schools across Illinois and thousands of schools across America are facing the same challenges. Furthermore, there is little doubt that almost every school in America will find itself in the same position within a few years. NCLB dictates that a school must meet 100% proficiency in reading and math by 2014. In other words, practically EVERY STUDENT in the EVERY SCHOOL in America must be able to “meet or exceed” the standards on standardized tests within 6 years.
There is just no way that is going to happen.
Which creates a problem. The only way for a school to improve the learning that takes place within its walls is for the teachers and administrators to demonstrate a real commitment to improving the school. How is a teacher supposed to truly care about implementing a plan to improve test scores 5 or 10% when within one or two years even that increase will be insufficient to avoid “restructuring”? Every year the goal posts get moved further down the field from the schools. How can we expect our teachers to work hard to meet these standards when in the back of their minds they must know that it will never be enough?
NCLB is a disaster. Like the Iraq War it is a policy based on simple ideas that don’t work in the real world. Instead of improving schools it has created a culture of frustration, anger and defeat in our public schools. And every year the required AYP grows (I believe it is close to 70% at this point) the frustration mounts. It is time to repeal this toxic, ineffective legislation.
Our Representative Timothy V. Johnson supported the passage of NCLB in 2001. The Democratically-led Congress has put reauthorization on hold until next year, when they intend to take a careful look at the Act.
In the meantime expect the frustration to continue.
Just a quick note: I mostly agree with you here but mainly because I don't think it's any of the federal governments business. If a local school is failing it is a local issue to deal with and at best a State issue if the local gov't isn't able to resolve it. I'm for the feds stepping in when it can be shown that the school has actual discriminatory policies or takes actual discriminatory actions.
And of course I disagree on the parallel drawn to the Iraq War... but that's because I don't think the idea behind NCLB is bad... just being done by the wrong and least accountable level of government with the least involvment of the schools in question.
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Glock21 Op/Ed
Well, I think the Iraq parallel works pretty well, mainly because the planning for post-invasion Iraq was done idealistically, not realistically (ie: greeted as liberators, dismissal of Iraqi army, etc). I see the same problem with NCLB as someone somewhere apparently felt that the plan would work SO well that EVERY STUDENT IN AMERICA would be able to "meet or exceed" the standards on the tests by 2014.
It will never happen. Yet this is what teachers are supposed to forget while working long hours trying to make the next step on the AYP scale. It is ludicrous. The toil of millions behind a piss-poor policy.
Sounds like Iraq to me.
I have attended several seminars for attorneys that are involved with special education in the schools. Most of the attorneys there represent school districts, in fact, in the last one, there were only two of us who represented kids and parents. They spent the whole time whinnnnnning about NCLB. Finally, I raised my hand and asked the moderator-"I would like to hear if the panel, or from anyone in attendance if they have any better idea or plan to improve the schools?" None did.
Do you have any better suggestions?
On the Iraq war. As much as I hate having to do the UN's dirty work, my sence is that in this case we had no choice. I think it is a little too late to declare a truce with the terrorists, don't you. I suppose you could argue that we needed to respond to 9/11 by dropping another bomb on another pill factory like President Clinton did, but I doubt that would do anything. No one likes to see their son put in harm's way, but it is certainly better to let them try to plan another attack while on the run than to give them safe harbour anywhere. By the way my son is a Major in the army.
First, there are thousands of better ways to support or "fix" the school system. Personally, I'd direct you to the work of Jonathan Kozol or the efforts that have been underway to reform funding in this state. If you'd like to talk curricular approaches then you'll have to settle in for a dissertation on what does and does not work. I hardly think there are no other ideas on how to improve schools, as you implied.
But regardless, NCLB sucks. Just because you are not personally aware of the plethora of educational research that could be used to improve schools doesn't mean we should continue down the wrong path. If you are trying to get to Chicago and you are driving south on Route 57, the first thing I would suggest you do is stop the car and turn around.
Secondly, regardless of whether or not the invasion of Iraq was an operation that has put "the terrorists" (whoever THAT is) "on the run" (whatever THAT means) it is hardly arguable that the post-invasion planning was absolutely terrible. I am not interested in a debate about the merits of the war. What I am talking about is the same kind of misguided faith in bad ideas that led us to the place we now are in Iraq. There is no question that serious mistakes were made in the weeks and months after the fall of Baghdad. I would argue that those mistakes were made because the people in charge had ideological blinders on. They believed we would be greeted as liberators, that the Iraqi security forces could be dismissed, etc. This same kind of ideological blindness leads people to draft legislation that says EVERY AMERICAN STUDENT WILL MEET OR EXCEED THE STANDARDS BY 2014. Every one. Including those Special Ed kids you are talking about AND the kids from China who just arrived here in August.
That is just stupid policy and it is eerily reminiscent of what happened in Iraq in the Spring and Summer of 2003. It is also extremely similar to Iraq in that there is a generally small problem (underperforming kids/terrorists) we are trying to fix and instead of approaching the problem with intelligence and humility, the Bush Administration has decided to take a sledgehammer to the schools (or to Iraq) to make their point.
Just because you are not personally aware of the plethora of educational research that could be used to improve schools....
Could you point us in the right direction by citing one or two articles or web pages that could summarize such research for some of us ?
Michael Fuerst
With all the criticism that the bipartisan NCLB (the Democrats who voted for it are a who's who in the Democratic leadership) has gotten over the years, mainly from the left since it's politically popular to blame Bush, one would think that a new plan would have been introduced or would be in the planning stages to be introduced, but alas, none is forthcoming. Not even in the current Congress that is held by the Democrats is there anything being considered to replace NCLB.
Over the months various organizations have submitted to the Democratic leadership numerous revisions to NCLB, but the Democratic leadership has been bery lukewarm to it only because it is politically expedient to keep pummeling Bush and the Republican Party over the head with this even though the current Democratic leadership helped write and voted for NCLB, but nevermind those facts. Really, why would the Democratic leadership bother putting something for Bush to sign that he could use to trumpet some sort of victory? Won't happen. Partisan politics trumps education for the kids unless a Democrat wins the Presidency.
What kind of logic compares Iraq to education? Apples and Cucumbers is what that is. To use "is the same kind of misguided faith in bad ideas that led us to the place we now are in Iraq" as logic for camparing the two requires serious revision since there is no logic there. Using Kozol as a reference people should read is simply not a good idea. It was recommended to me and after reading two of his books and snippets of others I have come to the conclusion that somewhere in his past he wronged since he writes incessant negative screeds about the US public school system and assigns it numerous labels without researching the factors that cause them. While he provides some general ideas, but doesn't bother to go into details about them about funding or assigning leadership. He has high praise for the Communist educational system though. His latest book Shame of the Nation was probably the most disingenous piece of work I have ever read and was quickly criticised for not taking into account demographic and financial shifts over the years misleading readers to clearly wrong conclusions.
Could you point us in the right direction by citing one or two articles or web pages that could summarize such research for some of us ?
Here are 26000 articles dealing with the best and worst ways to reform schools. That is my point. Teaching students is as complex as, say, fighting a war properly. There is not a sure-fire way to do it well. What needs to be done is to let the people who work with the students every day have more autonomy over the way schools are run. Legislation like NCLB achieves the opposite.
One of the problems with a site like this is that readers and commenters often want easy answers to complicated problems. It is understandable, I do the same thing with the Chicago Bears. Take out Grossman and put in Griese! Take out Griese and put in Grossman! Aargh! When the whole time it is a wide variety of factors that are leading to the team losing or winning games.
What to do about it? Well, I'm still not convinced what the problem is to start with. If we are talking about inner-city schools I would suggest a change in the way schools are funded at the state level. If we are talking about overall competitiveness of the American workforce, I would argue there is no problem – our workers are some of the most productive, hardworking people in the world.
But if we are to assume that there is some really serious problem plaguing our schools (test scores are lower than the kids in Singapore, for example) then the best solution is probably to empower the people on the front lines: state and local boards of education, administrators, teachers, parents and students. In other words, my solution to NCLB is to get rid of NCLB and put nothing in its place. Nothing. Just give the state and local governments their fair share of the dollars and let them handle it.
Golly. I almost sound like a conservative. I'll end with this. Bureaucrats in DC have little hope of reforming all of America's schools with a "stick" approach. We need to take the power away from the centralized bureaucracy and re-empower the people on the front lines of education. That would be my solution, but I'm also the kind of guy who would have listened to my commanders when they asked for more troops before storming Baghdad. So what do I know?
I support NCLB because it's finally about the CHILD, not the SCHOOL. Before NCLB, failing kids with apathetic parents could be herded into pens and ignored until they graduated and became society's problem. Meanwhile the parents who cared saw their children learning and felt the school was doing a fine job.
Under NCLB, if a kid isn't learning then for the first time it actually affects the school. This is the way it should be. It's not the kid's fault that his parents don't help motivate him. Somebody needs to care. The teachers won't care, since these kids are a pain in the ass that makes teaching hell. The local voters won't care, since their kids are doing fine. Big government taking a stick to the school district seems like the only remaining option.
If your school isn't failing its kids then you get all the local control you want. If you're sweeping kids under the rug so they end up uneducated, poor, and on welfare, then you don't deserve local control.
Under NCLB, if a kid isn't learning then for the first time it actually affects the school. This is the way it should be.
I agree with this statement. One of the strengths of NCLB is that it does, in fact, force schools and districts to pay attention to the middle and lower-level kids. In theory, at least, this is a very good thing.
The teachers won't care, since these kids are a pain in the ass that makes teaching hell.
I disagree with both statements. I think most teachers care A LOT about these middle-of-the-road kids, and I don't think these kids are the ones who make teaching hell. There are WAY more quiet, zoned out kids who just don't care about learning than there are obnoxious, rude kids who are trying to disrupt the learning. Any teacher will tell you that much.
If your school isn't failing its kids then you get all the local control you want.
The assumption here is that lower test scores means the school is somehow failing the kids. My problem with this legislation is that it is too simple and idealistic. It assumes that every person in America should be able to get a really good score on standardized math and reading tests. I am a highly educated person. I am also an extremely productive member of society. I am an IDIOT when it comes to math. I can do division, etc. fairly well, but algebra is beyond me at this point.
Under NCLB I would be considered a failure. If you really want to help the middle and the bottom end you need to get real about what you can or cannot expect from people. Help them become productive members of society, help them understand how our society works and how they can take part. Drilling them on algebraic equations and context clues for three hours a day (which is what NCLB essentially dictates) is the QUICKEST way to convince them to drop out or tune out of school.
Thanks for response!
Best thing about NCLB? Parents and the community get to see just how bad our schools are! No wonder these teachers whine all day about it.
Yes, our schools do have problems. And there are many reasons for that. NCLB is just one of the reasons. Teaching to the test--gettting students to regurgitate answers to a proscribed standard of testing-- gets scores but does not teach children to think critcally and independently. I have been an educator, and know many experienced,excellent educators and none of them think NCLB is a good idea. Those students with engaged and concerned parents will always have an advantage. Those students whose parents are ignorant and/or don't give a rat's rear end will always be hamstrung. NCLB does not and cannot change that.
I would like to be evaluated based on a system that actually looks at my performance relative to other teachers.
The current system has nothing approaching the contextual evaluation that needs to be made to actually develop that context.
It's basically like those idiots that think that a player that picks up 100 RBIs on a offensive juggernaut is better than a player with a far better OBP and SLG but only drives in 80 RBI on a crappy team in a pitcher's park.
Context matters. Didn't these politicians learn THAT in school?
If I can take a kid reading at 4th grade level and bring them to 8th grade in one year, should I be defunded? That's lunacy!
NO more lunacy than graduating students that read at a 4th grade level and handing them a diploma.
While I agree that no student reading at a 4th grade level should be allowed to graduate, I wonder if some of the folks around here realize what a statement that really is. In this entire history of this country wide swaths of citizens have been allowed to go their entire lives on less than a 5th grade education. It is really only with the education reforms of the 1950s and 60s that we began to try to educate every student at a higher level. But even then, when most of us came up, there were dozens of kids in our classes who just dropped out and went to work on farms, in the trades, or in factories.
For many kids, those are just not options any more and now we demand that EVERY student excel at reading and math or we will kick the shit out of the teachers and principals at that school. The problem is that even the best schools in the world (and yes, America is the home of the best school systems in the world) will soon be considered failures because they cannot get EVERY SINGLE STUDENT in their district at "meets or exceeds". Why? Because it is impossible.
Xian speaks of context, and he is right. But even more important than the context of the school is the context of each individual student. Human beings are not widgets, and Frederick Winslow Taylor would be dumbfounded if he attempted to create a system that could churn out perfectly educated students. Here we find the fundamental problem with the legislation: it intends to treat every person alike, with common goals and expectations. No where else in the world (even the military!) will you find people attempting to do this with human beings. It doesn't make sense.
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but I'd love to hear exactly what is wrong with our schools. When people write quips like:
Parents and the community get to see just how bad our schools are!
It is usually best to wonder what exactly this fella is talking about. Which school? Why is it terrible? What are your solutions?
Or are you just talking out your ass because it is fun to diss teachers?
NO more lunacy than graduating students that read at a 4th grade level and handing them a diploma.
Hmm, are you being intentionally obtuse? Your plan was the lunatic one that gives no incentive to bring up that student's reading level. Mine would at least reward the High School for raising the student 5-6 grade levels in just four.
Or are you just talking out your ass because it is fun to diss teachers?
He's either going to say, "Yes!" or lie, either one it's depressing that people like to play out their insecurities on our nation's youth.
A couple of observations and questions.
When I was going through school, there were some of my original classmates who were kept in a grade and had to repeat that grade. Most of the time it was because of extended illness but in some cases it was because of home problems which cut into their study time or just an inability to understand a basic class.
I am not aware of any of them that did not benefit from that opportunity to step back and try again. Many of them are very successful today because that teacher thought it was in their best interest to "try again". When they were retained in a grade, the teacher made over and above efforts to help them with their problem, and most of the kids never forgot that teacher and his/her genuine help in the "try again"
This statement from above should never be overlooked:
"What needs to be done is to let the people who work with the students every day have more autonomy over the way schools are run"
Schools back then were run by the teachers who knew exactly what was going on IN THE AREA and they could adjust their lesson plans and planning to fit THE AREA. State and Nationwide laws attempting to do that are doomed to failure.
There is no such thing as a good National Standardized Test because of the tremendous variable of local living standards.
Here are a couple of examples, from my personal experience
My High School Class had 46 graduate and I was in the top percentage of that class. I was awarded the Principle Appointment to West Point in my area and had to go to Fort Sheridan in Chicago to take a National Standard West point testing exam. The testing exam consisted of 3 parts:
1. Physical Condition - was I healthy, did I have any diseases, were my teeth OK, could I see and hear, etc.?
I passed that easily.
2. Physical Aptitude - Could I do 50 push ups and 20 pull ups, could I throw a basketball 100 feet, could I standing broad jump 1 feet, etc.?
Again I passed that very easily.
3. Mental Aptitude - Could I understand the grammar in a sentence, could I write the Preamble to the Constitution, could I read, could I understand Calculus, Analytical Geometry, Trigonometry and Algebra.
I did not pass this portion of the test because in my High School, unlike the Schools in the larger cities, Calculus and Analytical Geometry were not offered. I did not have a chance on this Standardized test because of my geographic location and education.
For years, the Professional Land Surveyor's test in Illinois was prepared by Illinois Professional Land Surveyors. The test was fair and if you were not practicing land surveying, you could not pass it. It contained such questions as
How do you straighten a stake to be on line?
Many professional engineers took the test believing they could pass it without actually practicing surveying. None did.
But now as a result of legislative changes from legislators, who also could not pass this test, it has been changed to a Nationally Standardized Test and the quality of Land Surveyors is suffering, because those engineers can pass this test.
Let me repeat the controlling issue:
"What needs to be done is to let the people who work with the students every day have more autonomy over the way schools are run"
I am particularly interested in what John, Boone, Glock, Michael, xian and Artichoke have to say, because it looks like you are all suggesting what I also believe.
To that end, I am, and shall always remain;
Rex Bradfield
I agree with D. Boon. I’ve spent hours looking at research related to this harmful federal mandate, and there just isn't any evidence that shows that holding a gun to teachers’ heads helps them teach better, or helps the children learn (actually, it is the opposite!).
Those who are interested in learning more should read the ample literature on the effects of NCLB, starting with the already-mentioned Jonathan Kozol: (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-kozol/why-i-am-fasting-an-expl_b_63622.html)
In addition, I am very worried that locally-elected school boards are very much at risk these days. In many cities, such as Chicago and NYC, democratically elected schools boards have been taken over by mayors and replaced with CEO’s and appointed education committees that are largely comprised of business-focused individuals and policies. This is not to say business folks are inherently dangerous, just that appointed committees lack the checks and balances of the democratic process. Also, who will then speak for those without voices, or even the tax-paying citizen? Is Unit 4, with it’s newly appointed “vision” committee sliding down this slippery slope?
Are the components of these standardized tests considered "fundamentals"? If they are, why would we be more concerned about critical thinking and thinking independently? Teenagers do that all by themselves. If the tests do not represent the fundamentals, then that is a different problem. Advanced skills are critical for preparing students for the workplace, but the fundamentals are also critical.
There was a reference to baseball earlier in this thread. I played baseball competitively for many years. During tryouts, the coaches didn't didn't have a long and deep conversation with me. They made me throw, catch, run, and hit. For those who couldn't, they watched from the stands.
I know most staffing agencies require applicants to take a standardized test. I know firsthand that employers look at those scores before they even get to an interview to assess critical and independent thinking.
Let the local schools teach kids whatever they want, but keep the fundamentals consistent. Do not give a student a diploma until they can read and do math at a 12th grade level. The most frustrating thing about the program is that we needed a program to state the obvious. There should be no surprise that a govt program is flawed. If a high school diploma starts to have more significance other than demonstrating that you showed up for 12 years, it is a step in the right direction.
I guess the question is, "What are you going to do to help me teach my students to read at a 12th grade level?"
I'm not saying that I can't teach a child to read. I'm saying that not all children have identical circumstances. If I happen to have the most challenging segment of the student population (which I do) and you are filling my classrooms beyond capacity and giving me tons of paperworks and making me buy my own supplies to teach them, then I think it's fair for me to ask the system to do more than just shout at me, "THE NEW TRIER KIDS ARE READING AT A 14th GRADE LEVEL! WHY CAN'T YOUR KIDS READ?!?!?!!?"
I agree with you Rex, but I would be happy with accountability beyond that. Basically, "We trust you to develop your own strategies within your environment with your individual students, and we will evaluate you thoughtfully taking into account the realities of your situation."
After all, why wouldn't I want people to check up on my thoughtfully? I want props for all the cool stuff I'm doing :P
Is there any motivation for the kids? Are the held back if they are not performing? Are they forced to go to summer school if they are not performing?
What is the motivation for the teachers? Is there anything that can be measurable to tie a bonus to?
If we can answer these two sets of questions, we can start getting somewhere. There should be tools out there by now that help address the challenges xian mentions. I am curious how much time is spent developing new creative ideas on how to teach kids read vs. analysis and feedback. With technology, why can't computers teach the basics and teachers work more directly with the individual students? It's the same amount of work for the teacher, just a more effective utilization of resources.
http://www.illinipundit.com/2007/06/28/high-school-goes-online.
1. Motivation varies greatly from student to student. Most traditional teaching techniques are less effective with at-risk populations. If you got jumped on the way to school, positive reinforcement doesn't always have as much effect.
2. Yes, they are held back for not performing.
3. Yes, they are forced to go to summer school, if they want to graduate.
4. Other than the pride of doing a good job and better relationships with students, there's not really any good incentive to put in the extra effort. That's enough for a lot of us, but not all of us.
5. There are some tools to help us teach in these populations, however, the bulk of the research and methodology deals with the children of the privileged.
6. Little time is spent on creativity or accountability. The bulk of the time is spent on hollow paperwork.
7. Technology cannot teach if it is not made available to all students.
Or we could have the " win a car if you show up" contest ALA Urbana. Why not "hold kids back" as previously suggested. I see no value in giving students a high school diploma that have such low skills and passing them on through the system. IT seems that " standards" have absolutely no meaning in our school system. When I graduated high school many years ago in another state...we were given an " knowledge equivalent" test before any senior was awarded the diploma. Quite a few did summer school and remedial work. That to me seems to be a key difference today.... Going into some type of hissie fit over finding someone else to blame for poor students preformance does no good at all. I'll make this statement again...
IS IT TOO MUCH TO ASK A GRADUATING SENIOR TO HAVE MATH SKILLS AND VERBAL SKILLS EQUAL TO THE 12 GRADE? To me it seems a no brainer?
Is it too much ask a twelve grader to be able to fly planes or be fluent in Japanese or be able to make movies?
It really depends on the environment they are immersed in, doesn't it?
IS IT TOO MUCH TO ASK A GRADUATING SENIOR TO HAVE MATH SKILLS AND VERBAL SKILLS EQUAL TO THE 12 GRADE? To me it seems a no brainer?
Wow. You really set yourself for a couple of dozen good jokes there. But in the interest of decorum ...
What you are essentially suggesting is that we do not allow students to graduate until they pass tests that tell us they are doing math and literacy on a 12th grade level. This does sound logical, but what are you going to do with the students who fail your test? Keep them in school until they are 21? Or would you rather they drop out? Go about their business without the diploma?
I guess this bring up the obvious question: what is the point of education? If I can produce 100 18 year olds who can read and do math at a 12th grade level, but can't use a computer, have zero critical thinking skills, zero knowledge of their own history, no understanding of art history, science, athletics, government, how to give a decent speech, etc. have I been successful? Under your model, I have.
The point is that students are all different. Some are really good at math, some suck at it and always will. Others are voracious readers while still more are lucky to have the attention span to finish a comic book but can rebuild a carburetor in less than three hours. As Xian points out, some live in ghetto hells while others live in suburbs with all the advantages. Yet you'd like all of them to appear in the spring of their 12th year in the public school system with the exact same set of skills. All else be damned!
Does that really seem like a no brainer, or does it seem like someone with ...
Oh, forget it.
If a high school diploma doesn't at least mean you have basic math and language skills, then it's completely and absolutely worthless. Employers and colleges can just consider it proof you showed up... but it doesn't really differentiate you from a drop out beyond that. If you can pass a class without learning the material then even the transcripts start losing their value as any proof whatsoever that you learned anything in the classes listed.
Will some students have serious issues that get in the way of their education? Absolutely. Some kids have learning disabilities, some have mental disabilities, some are mentally ill, some have serious problems outside of school that stand in their way. It is absurd to punish teachers and schools for things outside their control when it comes to these matters.
It is equally absurd to turn diplomas and transcripts into nothing more than proof of attendance. If it's important to people to have some piece of paper declaring that they at least went through motions of school even if they couldn't pass the required courses then perhaps we could issue "certificates of completion" to those who didn't graduate. You can list that on your employment applications so your employer knows you're likely to at least show up to work, that you probably at least tried, and that you weren't kicked out. It'll help differentiate you from some of the slackers, the drop-outs, and/or those who are big trouble.
Does this in any way imply that teachers shouldn't teach critical thinking skills or teach non-basics or even advanced topics? Absolutely not. While I understand the time constraints may become problematic if a teacher has to focus on the basics constantly for the benefit of those who "suck at it and always will," there's probably a better solution than just passing them in those courses or handing them a diploma anyways. I'd suggest alternative math classes for those who "suck at it and always will" or alternative english classes for those who "suck at it and always will," etc etc. Meanwhile the other students aren't held back and those with specific hold ups can still take normal classes in subjects they have no problems with. Everybody gets the most out of their education that way, regardless if they end up with a diploma at the end.
Will kids who didn't graduate have to "go about their business without the diploma?" Yes. That's what happens when you don't meet the requirements of a program. You don't get to say you met them. Apparently some people would like to make an exception for high school. Does that better prepapre them for the real world?
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Glock21 Op/Ed
Well we've managed to bounce pretty far off topic now, what with all the people who have armchair quarterback ideas about how to best run a school. I have been very impressed by the work being done to make some of us look like defeatists. How dare we claim that EVERY STUDENT IN AMERICA won't be able to "meet or exceed" the "standards" in math and literacy by 2014. What are we, a bunch of jerks who want to hand out diplomas in gumball machines? You got that right!
Look, nobody is handing out diplomas to people who can't read. Like the nuclear bombs in Iraq and Iran, this is just another scare tactic. It isn't happening. What *is* happening is that about 40% of the students in this nation are graduating from high school without the ability to get a decent enough score on a standardized exam. This doesn't mean they aren't well educated (of note is the fact that America's workforce continues to be the MOST PRODUCTIVE in the world), or well prepared for life. It just means some aren't too good at math, others aren't that great at reading long, tricky passages, and still others are just really bad at taking tests.
No matter. Our schools suck and anyone who says different is trying to hand out diplomas like popsicles on a hot summer day.
My suggestion? Since so many posters on this site seem to know so damned much about what is wrong with our schools I would suggest immediate enrollment in the EOL program of your choice. Score that two-year degree and start making a difference! Become the principal of your local high school, DEMAND test results and ... and ... stuff! And then go about making that stuff happen by doing some ... you know ... stuff that will make it happen. And then DEMAND RESULTS!
Should be no problem, really.
"Look, nobody is handing out diplomas to people who can't read. "
The average black high school graduate reads at the level of the average white 8th grader. But we'll just chalk that up to the "long, tricky passages" that they have to read to get a good score on the READING TEST. It's not like you have to be able to read long, tricky passages to get a good job.
If you want to help black kids read better, instead of subjecting yourself to the system that is the source of the problem, you can work at a Sylvan Learning Center, or start your own business. Try to get the laws changed to allow parents the right to their choice of education for their child.
The solution is not trying to continue to prop up a failed system of government-run schools. Let's not be HSQDs. Allowing the public school system to become irrelevant is the best way to help more kids learn to their full potential.
So the best thing Boon could to to help kids learn is to stop teaching? Now that's chutzpah. Ignorance really is strength, I guess.
The average male African American high school graduate also represents the highest 20% of their high school class. Their high school is utterly segregated, utterly underfunded, and riddled with violence.
And the solution is for me to quit working 70+ hours a week to improve their situation and go teach YOUR kids at the Sylvan Learning Center.
Where did you go to school?
So the best thing Boon could to to help kids learn is to stop teaching? Now that's chutzpah. Ignorance really is strength, I guess.
Who said I am a teacher?
I continue to wonder where the beef is with the "failed public school system". Boy we hear that a lot 'round here. Why is it a failure again?
I guess I just wonder where all these highly intelligent critics received their edu-ma-cation. Or where the American work force has become educated. No doubt there are problems with our schools (especially in funding), but to declare the entire system a failure when schools like Stevenson High School or New Trier are considered the BEST HIGH SCHOOLS IN THE WORLD seems a little disingenuous. At best.
But what do I know? I went to a public school and just spelled disingenuous from memory. No doubt if my memory had failed me and I had spelled it incorrectly (did I?) that would mean my high school, my entire school district, and the entire US public school system was a failure.
By failure I mean that there is no hope of fixing the public school system. Teachers unions and the assigning of students to schools based on geography are the main reasons there is no hope. I'm not claiming that the valedictorian from New Trier is an idiot, I just believe that things will not get better in the government schools, so since I care about helping kids learn, I will work to do that outside of the government school system.
Sorry, I had gotten the impression somewhere that's what you were.
By failure I mean that there is no hope of fixing the public school system.
It seems that you still mean the entire public school system is a failure. You know, it is possible that a LOT of kids are learning a LOT of stuff every day in our schools. It is also possible that without a public education system these kids would be in MUCH WORSE shape than they currently are. I mean, I have a lot of complaints about NCLB but we are basically discussing the difference between 60% of American students scoring high on the ACTs and 100% of the students scoring that high. This is AFTER the "best and brightest" have often trekked off to the Uni Highs and the private schools in the world. Even AFTER that migration, our schools are still doing a pretty damned good job with the task presented to them.
The idea of creating a private market for schools is rooted in conservative distrust of public entities. But why is the same scrutiny NOT applied to the private sector? One glance at what has gone on in the banking sector over the last five years should be enough to send shivers down any spine. You want to trust THOSE PEOPLE with our kid's education?
No, you'd need to do better than that. What are the problems that ail the public schools, specifically? Again, I'd love to see the list.
Well, a lot of people, probably not you, feel like they are paying an awful lot to the government schools for not very much education. You obviously believe things are ok, and I don't really feel like playing the "change my mind" game. All you have to do is write your property tax check and rest assured that the government and teachers unions will use your money wisely. By the way, if math were a color, what color would it be? This is something you want 5th graders to think about.
I'll start worrying about the private sector like I do the government when it's the case that the Walmart manager will bring a swat team to my house and break down the door to force me to pay them for things that I don't want to buy. And you might be surprised to learn how much the government has to do with the lending industry. The government is working on a plan right now to take money from responsible people and give it to irresponsible people - on both sides of the lending market. I believe that if the government refused to do these bailouts, people would make much better decisions.
There is more scrutiny applied to the private sector. Employees of the Sylvan Learning Center can't hide behind the title of "public servant". This is a good thing. Public school teachers, particularly those who teach in tough situations frequently put up the public servant shield.
Wow, worst comparison ever. If public school kids paid by the hour what Sylvan Learning center charges, I would make approximately $140,000 a week. And I'm a lot better teacher now than I was when I worked for the privates.
Currently, I could make twice as much quitting my job and just expanding my tutoring of New Trier kids. But money isn't everything...
But I'm going to go hide behind the title of "public servant" again. I hate to think what title you are hiding behind.
"Wow, worst comparison ever."
What comparison are you talking about? Because parents pay a lot to send their kid, who probably goes to a public school already, to a Sylvan learning center, it is not fair to compare the public image of those who work at Sylvan and those who work in government-run schools? I think your comment proves my point. They are seen as greedy, while you care. This is what I call hiding behind the title of public servant, and you are one of the best at doing it.
Anyway, if what you say is true, you could work at Sylvan for a few weeks and then start the Xian school for kids who get shot at, and do much more good than you are doing now. So why don't you?
The fact is that every penny that Sylvan gets has been voluntarily given to them by a parent or student who wants their services. The same cannot be said for your salary. If a parent didn't want to pay taxes towards your salary, they would be thrown in jail or worse.
But we aren't talking about being a jackass and insulting me personally. We are talking about education. If you had had one, you would know that things like class size are important.
As I said before, I have worked at private. The situations are not at all comparable. A lot of your responses don't even match what we are talking about. For example, I said that if I was paid by students by the hour what the Sylvan learning center charges, I would make $140,000 week. It was to point out that it's hilarious that you think that individualized tutoring is a logical comparison to 40/classroom teaching.
But I guess you weren't ever interested in education. You are just interested in putting forth your treasonous anti-American ideas. Have a nice day.
fwiw - it might be of interest to you to think about Xian originally said - the part about being paid by New Trier students for tutoring in (I assume) Japanese. It might also be of interest to you to realize that students in other countries also pay a lot of money each year for tutoring services outside of school. It is pretty common and their tax rates are typically much higher than what you are paying in the states.
If your problem is with forced taxation then your problem is with society as it currently stands. We all pay for things we don't appreciate, or we think are failures. I think the Pentagon and the US Military are money pits where billions are spent on weapons that last a couple of years and then become obsolete. Does that give me permission to refuse to pay my federal income tax? I doubt it.
I would humbly suggest that you start explaining what exactly the problem is with out school system. You don't need to do it to convince me that our schools suck. I just think it might be interesting for you to have to back up your rhetoric with some facts. Do you believe a school system (Sylan, etc.) exists that could actually teach EVERY AMERICAN STUDENT to "meet or exceed" the standards by 2014? I don't mean just the students whose parents can afford the tuition at Sylvan, I mean EVERY AMERICAN STUDENT. The kids with learning disabilities, the kids with behavioral disorders, the gangbangers, the skater boys, the crystal meth addicts, the "Goths", the drama kids who spend six hours a night memorizing their lines instead of doing their homework, the homies who wear court-mandated ankle-bracelets to class, the cheerleaders and the football players who are great on the field but sometimes too exhausted to pay attention in class.
How 'bout the kids who are being verbally and physically abused every night? Is there a Sylvan program for them? How 'bout the sons of Dads who constantly tell them how much their school sucks? Or the alcoholics? How 'bout the kids with the pick-up trucks who just want to finish school so they can go back and work on the farm? How 'bout the nerds who fear for their lives every day at school? How about the Spanish-speakers, or the Korean kids who lived in Seoul for the first 15 years of their lives? Got a way to get them reading English at a 12th grade level in 2 years?
Or how 'bout that perfectly normal kid who has always hated math?
My point is that the public schools deal with ALL of these kids and thousands more that defy simple description. Some days administrators spend more time with police officers than they do with kids. Other days they spend more time filling our paperwork than meeting with teachers. It is one hell of a job and it is not easy. But I've NEVER met an administrator that did not demand my respect and my admiration for trying to make it work.
It is easy to throw stones with few facts or details at your disposal. Much harder to take a close look at what schools are expected to do every day and come up with a solution that works better than what is now being attempted. Are America's schools perfect? No, of course not. Are they great? Some definitely are. Are they doing the best they can with the reality that is 21st century America? You better believe it.
Ok, for example. What about the parents who are desperately trying to get their children to learn math, but their schools use curriculum that doesn't require 5th graders to be able to multiply 2 digit numbers? I consider that a typical example of the problem of public schools in the US. Parents are so frustrated that they form groups to protest the curriculum that their school is using. The sad thing is that people in education colleges keep coming up with lousy curriculum ideas and schools keep adopting them. In these situations, you can't blame the black kids or the gangs; it's the fault of education professors, school principles, and teachers.
My point about Sylvan was not to suggest that kids go to Sylvan learning centers instead of school. I mentioned it as an example of people working to help education outside of the government-monopoly. Comparing the public image of for-profit education companies and government school teachers is not the same thing as saying that schools should be run as Sylvan learning centers. I fully realize that it is easier to teach one child than 35. I never suggested anything to the contrary. But "correcting" me on that point sure makes you look like you know what you're talking about.
Did I make any personal insults? I don't recall any name-calling or anything. I haven't accused anybody of being stupid, or questioned what school they went to. Some other people have done that though. So sad, and anonymous commenters get the bad rep.
Actually, D-Boon, I tutor them in Math...and Geography...and History...and Chemistry...and anything else they need.
I'd gladly tutor in Japanese too, but most of their kids are studying Spanish, which I can help them in aceing their homework, but I don't really see to be a good use of their money--I don't actually know any Spanish.
I am very disappointed. I was hoping this thread would solve all the problems of the United States' educatioanal system.
Michael Fuerst