This is interesting:
After I wrote a column last Sunday on the state school report cards for the high schools in our area, it was suggested that one apples-to-apples comparison would be to look at how white students performed at each high school.
That's probably not an entirely accurate comparsion either, because mobility and poverty rates are other factors that can influence test scores.
But these numbers ought to provide some assurance to the white families who supposedly are fleeing Champaign schools in great numbers, bound either for private schools or public schools in suburban areas.
These scores are based on the state's Prairie State Achievement Examination, taken by 11th-graders.
Read the whole thing for the list of scores, but as a teaser - Champaign Central HS and Centennial HS were the top two schools in all four categories.
Discuss.
(And kudos to Mr. Kacich for putting together the numbers.)
I really do not think that the white familes that have left,,,,,,,and are going to leave? if or when, really care much about the stats Kacich has brought forth. It would strike me that there are more personal reasons for leaving Unit 4, atmosphere for their children,,,,,,,what ever the reasons,,,,,,,these people wanted out,,,and more want out,,,,,,,so Tom can assure all of the parents he wants too. I dont think it will cut any ice.
That is very interesting. I have two kids at Central which is essentially a school with two very different populations (I'm talking about achievement, not race). We've been very satisfied with our experience at Central with our kids in almost all accelerated and AP classes. Central does have a lot of very impressive, high-achieving kids. The people we know who have gone to STM or moved to Mahomet have been more concerned with their children's safety than their academics or they are Catholic. We haven't had any safety concerns at Central. When there is an event, the principal e-mails the parents immediately and there is a designated meeting place we are supposed to go to in case of a big crisis. My kids aren't even around the "prone to trouble" kids during the day because they are in different classes. I found the safety issue much more troubling in elementary and middle school where kids are not separated out by levels of achievement. There appears to be more violence on the elementary school playgrounds than in the high schools and that's where families are being lost from the school system.
Somewhere Imani and Thom are trying to come up with a response. Imani is probably already drawing up a four-square chart as we speak.
anon 5:48,
So basically you are saying as long as your white kids are smart, they will be safe?
Same reason we left the school district. Absolutely no challenge for students who work hard, all the emphasis on those that seem to get in trouble. If you have a child that "Does the right thing", it's a ho hum for administrators and teachers and they move right on. Private schools in our experience seem to really care about individual students and have a low tolerance for overlooked disruptive behavior that public schools don't seem to have a problem with.
So basically you are saying as long as your white kids are smart, they will be safe?
Apparently so, if they can make it out of elementary and middle school. The kids with guns, knives and drugs aren't in AP Calculus or Accelerated Algebra II or Graphic Design or AP Chemistry or Spanish IV. The only class my boys have been in that everyone has to take is Health, which they both found annoying because of the disruptive nature of many of the students.
Say what you will, but I volunteered so many hours in the schools that I reached a point where I can only be concerned with my own children. The home situation of many of these children is so hopeless that no one can help them. Unless your child tests into the gifted program, all the children are kept at the same level until high school. This is where families like JohnBoy's decide that the situation is not tolerable and they move them out of Unit 4.
After a decade of discussion and observation and shepherding 3 kids through private schools, we have concluded that there are lots of good, smart kids in public school, and lots of opportunity for motivated kids to learn and achieve. Unfortunately, there are also a fair number of kids who are troubled and disruptive. All things being equal, why would I want my kids to fraternize with a poplulation that could lead them down the wrong road?
We have had children in two different private schools and Urbana schools. The Campus Middle School for Girls was a great experience for our daughter. Urbana Middle School has made dramatic improvement with Nancy Clinton as principal. They have addressed the bullying problems, offer accelerated classes, support academic teams, and have a good atmosphere. This was not the case when our first child was there 6 years ago. Our second child attended a well thought of local private school and fell behind in math and foreign language. The public schools have more resources and offer more options. Operating schools is a very expensive undertaking and the local private schools charge about $10,000/year/child and they still cannot pay as well or offer the same benefits as public schools. Only those teachers who can afford to work for a lower salary teach in the private schools which limits your pool of teachers.
Urbana High School has been great. When one of our kids wanted to homeschool complaining of boredom, we met with the principal and he said they would do whatever was necessary to make sure our child was challenged. They put the child into higher level classes and the teachers are really good. I believe the best Calculus/Physics teacher in the area is at Urbana High. One member of our household is an academic in this field so we have pretty high standards.
The number of AP classes offered in Urbana and Champaign outstrips Mahomet, St. Joseph, or any other local schools. My kids have taken AP Calculus, AP English, AP Physics, AP Economics, AP Biology, etc. Our first child got into all the good schools in the region that were sent applications, Grinnell, Knox, Beloit, etc. and was offered academic scholarships. 78% of the students who took Advanced Placement Exams at UHS in 2007scored a 3 or higher. Our child's best friend entered Columbia on early admission.
Yes, there are problems with the public schools, but if your child wants to excel they have every opportunity. Our children never felt unsafe and they were never subjected to any bullying at the high school. There are many diffferent races, cultures, and expectations in our schools. I think this is an asset. Attending a homogenous middle-class white school has its advantages, but the world is not homogenous, well-off and white, it is diverse. Learning to live and work with people from different ethnic and economic backgrounds is a skill our children now have that will serve them well in the future.
I want the absolute best for my children and that unfortunately does not translate into PUBLIC schools. Why should the public overlook these problem kids and tolerate such terrible behavior, just in the name of .." accepting" the world as it is. Most explanations are like above, ...sometime in the order of...".....the world is a different place today, we have to accept that times are different and students have a different home life and academic interests, etc.". I'm just not going to accept substandard education, with movies being shown in MATH class, and frequent "FREE" days where absolutely no learning occurs at all. These reasons moved us to the private school system and we are absolutely happy with it. One last point, there is a reason that ILLINOIS is one of the remaining states refusing to give an senior exit exam upon graduation.........
Perhaps you were not able to understand what was said. My children never have had "substandard" education in our public school. One of us is an academic in the sciences so substandard classes would never be tolerated. In fact, the worst math instruction we experienced was in a private school. Our kids have taken AP Physics and AP Calculus and the best teacher around is at Urbana High School. He is teaching Calculus and Physics at a level that one would expect at a community college. It is unfortunate that you seem to experienced poor teachers in a local public school, but that has nothing to do with the value of diversity. Diversity is not about tolerating misbehavior.
Many people are happier in private schools, but that does not mean that public schools do not offer quality education. Our kids and their friends are attending the best universities and colleges in the country on scholarships and are thriving. They are products of Urbana Public Schools.
As someone who knows public schools very well, I can second what anonymous is saying: the public schools in this area really are excellent. They are not perfect, but I would easily challenge any of the AP students at UHS against the same age kids at the private schools in the area. And remember, Urbana and Champaign have many of their best students stolen by Uni!
In comparison I have worked with kids at my church who attend Judah Christian School. I have not been impressed (I'll just leave it at that). I think the big difference in quality of education is the teacher and private schools are just not able to compete with public school pay. But beyond the educational excellence idea is this beautiful sentence:
Learning to live and work with people from different ethnic and economic backgrounds is a skill our children now have that will serve them well in the future.
Bingo. At the end of the process it is about equipping our young people with the skills to succeed. One of the skills that is extremely necessary in 21st century America is the ability to be successful in a diverse workplace. The kids in public schools are able to take some of the best classes and also learn to not be afraid of every young black man wearing a baseball hat. Priceless.
The kids in public schools are able to take some of the best classes and also learn to not be afraid of every young black man wearing a baseball hat. Priceless.
An overraction of someone who can't afford to send their kids to private schools or afford to move to a better area.
Learning to live and work with people from different ethnic and economic backgrounds is a skill our children now have that will serve them well in the future.
That'd be because they'll be doomed to blue-collar assembly-line jobs because they've been robbed of a real education and won't be able to do anything except hard manual labor and will share that fate with the immigrant class that we invite to this country and then ignore when they get here.
Honey, we sent our kids to private school and money was not the issue. Our kds are currently enrolled in some of the best private colleges in the country. They will not be doing "hard manual labor" dear.
An overraction of someone who can't afford to send their kids to private schools or afford to move to a better area.
That'd be because they'll be doomed to blue-collar assembly-line jobs because they've been robbed of a real education and won't be able to do anything except hard manual labor and will share that fate with the immigrant class that we invite to this country and then ignore when they get here.
That's totally true, we should all try to be so rich that our kids don't have to deal with diversity. Not being able to communicate with others in society is what makes our society great.
The documented higher price to live away from black people is worth every prejudicial cent of hate money, right?
this is a pretty interesting discussion. we are hearing from many that the education of the "higher" kids at the C/U public high schools is quite good. I don't doubt that, or that the kids are getting good teachers at the grade and middle schools either.
So, what is the problem? Attitude? Atmosphere? Forget the long term strategic planning, there is a lot of stuff that could be done right away to correct these issues. Warm greetings, plenty of staff in lunch rooms and outside the schools before and after school. Low tolerance for disruptive behavior, but great respect for kids as human beings.
"Not being able to communicate with others in society is what makes our society great."
True dat
On November 11th, 2007 at 10:56 PM, Anonymous (not verified) said:
Learning to live and work with people from different ethnic and economic backgrounds is a skill our children now have that will serve them well in the future.
"That'd be because they'll be doomed to blue-collar assembly-line jobs because they've been robbed of a real education and won't be able to do anything except hard manual labor and will share that fate with the immigrant class that we invite to this country and then ignore when they get here."
Hey what's wrong with working a real job? You know one that you do with your hands, think about that when you drive by and see Carpenters building a house and all the other craftsman involved in the process, or the guy driving the truck working his butt off to send a couple of his kids to college, I'm sure you look down your nose at the guy picking up your garbage or any of a thousand jobs that people do in this Country that do not require a college degree. Many of these jobs, Electrician, Plumber, Carpenter, pay good salary. You think about that tonight when you get home and the lights work and the toilet flushes. I would suggest you read the book. "We've got it made in America" by John Ratzenberger, He talks about the gifted and AP programs in the schools, "When all the kids are special, none of the kids are "
Our kds are currently enrolled in some of the best private colleges in the country.
Be careful, one of the top complaints of Harvard grads is that they can't afford to send their kids to Harvard.
As far as the being doomed to manual labor, are you really that ignorant as to make such a statement? All of my siblings and myself are products of the Urbana school system, as well, 3 of the 4 of us either have post-graduate degrees or are in the process of obtaining such.
Myself, I received my Automotive (ASE) certification, and owned a repair shop in the area for a few years, subjecting myself to manual labor and makng a mere 200% of the income I would make as a teacher 10 years later. It's also a skill that has been very useful to me throughout life. I went back to school to become a teacher, and have continued my education since. I have taught college courses, and yes, within the Champaign -Urbana area, still making less than I did in my worst year working on cars (even combining salaries from the university and public school system).
Urbana and Champaign both have some excellent and highly educated teachers with much to offer, and, as do most schools, have some teachers who leave a bit to be desired. I do think the public schools likely have more qualified instructors than do the private ones, as there are more teachers available to teach a sole subject, such as advanced mathematics or physics. The only difference between public and private schools is the Rif-Raf. Public schools must keep these kids and coddle them, spoon feed them, tolerate their B.S. They do not have a choice. Private schools are not bound by the "education for all" choke-hold, and may "eliminate the problem". It's not so much the public schools, but the laws binding these schools. If they were allowed to discipline the kids that are causing the problems, the problems would lessen significantly or even cease to exist. I can tell you from my tenure in the C-U area that 90% of the problems in the pulic schools are caused by about the same 5% of the student body. Same goes for Suburban schools where I have taught as well.
While I may have personal isues with the administration of these schools or the effectiveness/efficiency with which they are run, that is a personal issue and not relevant in this case. The administration at the high schools in both cities has caused quite a few outstanding teachers to leave within the last 4 years. Whilst this is fact, there are still many wonderful teachers still holding on, waiting for a change of administration.
That's my beef. If you have another ignorant statement to make in public, go ahead. You're already on a roll.
An overraction of someone who can't afford to send their kids to private schools or afford to move to a better area.
That'd be because they'll be doomed to blue-collar assembly-line jobs because they've been robbed of a real education and won't be able to do anything except hard manual labor and will share that fate with the immigrant class that we invite to this country and then ignore when they get here.
<<<< Private school graduates, which pretty much proves the point the pro-public school side has been trying to make.
Our two sons came through the Unit 4 system, from the year-round schedule at Kenwood to the gifted programs at Franklin to very enriching experiences at Central. Finances didn't enter into this decision, nor did our choice of where to live. As a student I attended both public and private schools, so I had a strong opinion about how I wanted my sons to be educated and socialized.
The unfortunate truth is that students and parents must be committed to taking advantage of what the school system has to offer because the institution's ability to proactively reach and engage the student population seems to be more of a challenge than ever. The resources are there for academic and extracurricular challenges. Sometimes the resources are stretched a bit thin, but that characteristic isn't exclusive to public schools. This seems to be a common thread among those responses that defend the public education system while acknowledging its imperfections.
Just look at the numbers, hate to burst your bubble but there seems to be an exodus from the public schools. Why fault parents for leaving the "one size fits all" system to better their children. If money is the issue, then gives us this outrageous real estate tax back and let the public decide which is better. I just got tired of the unruly behavior, the cursing the outright disrespect that we experienced in public schools, something I do not see in private schools. I see a lot more college bound children coming out of these private schools also, I see a real change in attitude...students are their because they can learn without the baggage of all this BS pushed by the IMANI crowd. We can talk this subject to death.....I wonder if the problem is the CU area, I visited ST. JOE and other areas and don't see this disruptive attitude in schools...seems to be pretty unique to CU.
Driving by the schools in St. Joe doesn't count as making a comprehensive visit for comparison, JohnBoy. Having worked in both St. Joe high school and Unit 4 schools, I can say that there is plenty of disruptive and disrespectful attitude in St. Joe schools from the students, and those all-white schools don't have the "Imani crowd" forcing "BS" and baggage on them. This problem is not unique in any way to Unit 4. Yes, it is troublesome that the district has these problems, but nobody here is denying that there are problems in Unit 4, however throwing your hands up with thinly-veiled racist comments doesn't solve the problem. In fact, it actually makes it worse.
All of yoru comments in these Unit 4-related threads show a distinct lack of understanding about the actual purpose of the consent decree, or pretty much how anything works in the district. Conjecture, anecdotes and quarter-truths are so much easier than actual research, though...
Of course you see more college-bound students coming out of private schools. Not every student is college-bound, nor should they be forced to do something that isn't in their best interest. Why would someone pay for prep-school tuition if you're not planning on going to college?
Can you blame people for being down on Unit 4? It's the same district that almost sent reknowned racist John Bambenek to the school board. When you've got clowns like that trying to make decisions, it's no wonder people want to go to private schools... they don't want to be clubbed by the Bambi-agenda.
Now there's some logic. They want to avoid someone who wasn't even elected?
You shall be dishonorably discharged from the Anon Army.
On November 12th, 2007 at 09:47 PM, Anonymous (not verified) said:
Can you blame people for being down on Unit 4? It's the same district that almost sent reknowned racist John Bambenek to the school board. When you've got clowns like that trying to make decisions, it's no wonder people want to go to private schools... they don't want to be clubbed by the Bambi-agenda.
It's also the same district that hired
DR., MR. Arthur Culver who did such a poor job in Texas that they (the school board) hired him and his gang from Texas and then renewed His contract after a dismal first term. " You're doing a hell of a job Artie!""Can you blame people for being down on Unit 4? It's the same district that almost sent reknowned racist John Bambenek to the school board. When you've got clowns like that trying to make decisions, it's no wonder people want to go to private schools... they don't want to be clubbed by the Bambi-agenda."
Well, this discussion went from mostly-constructive to completely pointless pretty quickly.
KNOCK KNOCK...who's there...it's the thought police....I guess you have questioned the consent decree.....yikes! Lighten up, I just don't like the cursing, fights and disruptive behavior that occur in CU schools. I don't think it's too much to ask for at the very least some type of orderly behavior. I guess we agree to disagree...I am not overyly impressed with the type of education public CU schools offer and we choose to better our childern by sending them to a private school as many,many parents have done........geez?
Johnboy, wou've broken the cardinal rule of posting...:"thou shalt not criticize public schools" else bear the wrath of see no evil teachers!
ARIVD: Appartently you havent read the tuesday front page edition of the NEWS GAZETTE..about Resource Officers ( codename : cops). Not a rosy picture of the district...I don't recall seeing, " resource officers" in St. Joe.
I don't recall seeing, " resource officers" in St. Joe.
I guess you have not been there for a couple of years, Yes a Deputy Sheriff on Duty at St. Joe HS. He has an office in the school building.
In fact, St. Joe and many of the surrounding small districts had those "school resource officers" long before Unit 4 schools ever did.
St. Joe's Discipline problems are no were close to Unit 4's.
OK, do the numbers seem similar to the ones in the paper for District #4 ?
OK, but do the numbers seem similar to the ones posted in the NEWS GAZETTE?
"school resource officers"
Let's call them what they are, Police Officers, They are there because there is a problem at these schools, Dope, Violence whatever, these kids are not in "Lake Woebegon" everybody ain't above average! Wake up!
WOW...DISORDERLY CONDUCT 100, DEFIANCE 97, BATTERY 89,THEFT 68, FIGHTING 64....156 SUSPENSIONS?........nobody has a problem with these numbers? What were the numbers for ST. JOE?
The guy at Centennial had a great response about "dealing with behavior" in response to the numbers.
Of course, Imani and the revisionists will have to concoct a response. Bring on the four-square chart!
I always had a problem with them when I went to the committee meetings, then we would go to the Student Conduct Code Policy committee meetings and listen to people try to soften the penalties poor student conduct and I would shake my head. The sad thing was the teachers would try to teach under these weakened policies and had a heck of a time, as do the kids.
Resource Officers/Police Officers--We could also call them a deterrent, oh that's right to some there is no such thing. I guess to some students and parents they could be called peace of mind.
Isn't it amazing that we have one particular poster who hates Imani so much that he invokes her several times in every unrelated thread.
You might disagree with Imani, but she at least does genuinely have love for students at the center. This guy just oozes hate with every post.
"Isn't it amazing that we have one particular poster who hates Imani so much that he invokes her several times in every unrelated thread."
Amazing and annoying as heck.
"You might disagree with Imani, but she at least does genuinely have love for students at the center. This guy just oozes hate with every post."
Cosign.
Maybe you guys should actually, you know, read the article or something before you make comments.
I read the article. Nothing about Imani sucking the blood of good white children or anything of the sort.
No, but we'll see what spin is put on those numbers.