A while ago, we were discussing synchronized traffic signals, and somebody mentioned that doing so in CU would be nearly impossible.
Yet Chicago does it to a large degree.
About 2,000 of the 2,800 signalized intersections in the city of Chicago have synchronized traffic lights, according to the Chicago Traffic Management Authority. Another 476 signals are interconnected citywide. The remaining signals are on less traveled streets and act independently.
The rest of the article is pretty interesting, too.
Synchronizing lights is done for 2 purposes. The first is to move traffic along, and the other is to slow traffic down. Sometimes you want to break the flow, otherwise, speeding, or worse perhaps, complacency and lack of attentiveness take over the driver.
Sometimes you want to break the flow, otherwise, speeding, or worse perhaps, complacency and lack of attentiveness take over the driver.
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
Sorry it's seems that anon is having an argument with themselves. I actually agree with the first, I can see the city wanting to control speeds with the traffic lights. I wonder how much control they really have though, I could see a large city like Chicago having more options then we do.
No, it's not about controlling speed. It is about controlling the signals. It is expensive to pipe control of all signals to a central computer (or whatever) and use that to maintain traffic flow. C/Us signals are (for the most part) controlled at the source, which makes for ridiculous travel times unless you happen to get lucky. I don't know how many times I have sat at lights in this town where NO ONE was coming from the other direction. Tick ... tock ... tick ... tock ... still no one ... tick ... tock ...
It is ridiculous and there is no reason for it except expense.
Boon,
I question your definition of ridiculous. The only time it has ever taken me more than 20 minutes to drive from West Champaign to East Urbana, we had 2 feet of snow on the ground.
"I question your definition of ridiculous. The only time it has ever taken me more than 20 minutes to drive from West Champaign to East Urbana, we had 2 feet of snow on the ground."
While it's not ridiculous, it routinely takes me 30 minutes or longer to get from SE Urbana to SW Champaign. Inevitably, the lights on Windsor or Kirby run so that you'll hit five or six red lights in a row.
SE Urbana, to SW champaign, about 15-20. Don't know where the 30 minutes comes in. Maybe it's that hybrid you drive.
Chicago is helped by numerous one ways downtown. It is also helped by fewer lights in other areas. If i travel on Cicero avenue for example, i don't hit as many lights over the course of five miles as i would in some parts of champaign.
our travel times are among the best in the nation. Having them better would be nice, but I'm not willing to fork over huge sums to do it.
D. Boon says: "It is expensive to pipe control of all signals to a central computer (or whatever) and use that to maintain traffic flow. C/Us signals are (for the most part) controlled at the source, which makes for ridiculous travel times unless you happen to get lucky."
I would have to disagree with these statements as I was synchronizing traffic lights for an Illinois town of about 50,000 in 1968 long before computers and without central source control. I know it is hard to believe such a skill exist based upon so few examples here in CU but its called traffic engineering.
"SE Urbana, to SW champaign, about 15-20. Don't know where the 30 minutes comes in. Maybe it's that hybrid you drive."
From 130 and Windsor (or from Florida and Smith) to Trails/Ironwood. Took me 27 minutes once this weekend.
And I can assure you that nobody's ever accused me of driving too slowly.
I drive every day from SW Champaign to NE Urbana and it takes a MINIMUM of 20 minutes in the monring and closer to 30 in the afternoon going home. And I don't live that far west. However, the 4-way stops in Urbana are more of a problem than the traffic signals in Champaign. At a little after 5pm the traffic backs up almost to Pennsylvania from Florida on Race Street.
Yes, Urbana is worse than Champaign. In Urbana, there are no direct N-S routes between Lincoln and Vine, and between Vine and 130. Lincoln and Vine are not designed to move traffic efficiently, as they pass through congested residential and University areas, and traffic is slowed by design for safety reasons.
E-W isn't much better. Windsor is direct, but at the southern extreme. University is almost direct. But of other "main" Urbana routes, both N-S and E-W, Florida, Main, Philo, Cottage Grove, Washington, Race, etc. are just a series of choke points.
I know it is hard to believe such a skill exist based upon so few examples here in CU but its called traffic engineering.
I am sure it WAS called traffic engineering, but I am not sure that the new lights that have been put up over the last 40 years are able to do what you claim can be done, especially if those little buttons that pedestrians can push are actually capable of effecting the lights. Also, many lights now have censors in the turn lanes that trigger the turn signal, again throwing off the synch. My understanding is that this can be done but it requires a central control that may (or may not!) be really expensive to install.
I would suggest listening to the "Pedestrian Safety" segment of AM 580 from back in July for more info. Here's the link:
http://www.will.uiuc.edu/am/focus/archives/07/070702.htm
Urbana is horrible. Absolutely horrible. I find Springfield to still be the fastest way directly across town, but have spent five sold minutes just sitting at each of the lights on Main Street trying to get through downtown. I'd blame the bus stop at the Courthouse but then we know where this thread would go ...
Oops.
Sync the lights! Other cities have no problems with it! I moved to Champaign-Urbana in the middle of last year, and I'm still stuck at the light. >:(
Get the car haters off the city councils, and the problem will be solved.
It's 20 minutes from Lincolnshire Fields Country Club to Stone Creek Golf Course, every time.
Or dawdle take a dumb route or not pay attention and it could be 30 minutes. If you can't do it in 25 minutes you deserve the delays.
Try riding a bike. I can ride from SE Urbana to downtown Champaign in 20 minutes. It burns fat instead of oil and I don't have to pay for a parking space. It's great. Driving in Urbana is a snap compared to Chicago. I hate driving in Chicago.
It's 20 minutes from Lincolnshire Fields Country Club to Stone Creek Golf Course, every time.
Or dawdle take a dumb route or not pay attention and it could be 30 minutes. If you can't do it in 25 minutes you deserve the delays.
That is straight down Windsor Road. Easy drive for the golfers but for those of us who are employed, we need to get 1-2 miles north of there. There is no good way to do it. Especially since they "improved" Lincoln Avenue. Race has the High School. Vine has the Middle School. And it is too far out of the way to go all the way to Philo Road (which also has issues north of Florida) or to High Cross. Maybe I just need a new job with a better location. (It was five minues on foot from my house when I started. The office moved six months later!)
When I drive University Av from Mattis to Neil, or Springfield, or Kirby, if I get the green light at Mattis, I'll get green lights all the way to Neil (at least) if I'm not speeding. Same when I come from N Prospeect..... from Bloomington Road to Windsor, all green if I am not speeding, except between Church and University.. If I turn right anywhere on a green light I expect to come to a red light. And I can never get a green light on Neil all the way to Windsor, I always get stopped at Green and/or Hessel.
It seems to me that wherever lights are a mile or so apart, they are fairly well synched, if you drive within 2-3mph of the speed limit. But where lights are closer together, it'd be pretty difficult to time them for people in both directions.. If I plan my route, and there isn't any sports traffic and it not "rush hour" (which thankfully, around here, is literally "one-hour") I can get from Carle Hospital to Old Farm Center in 10 minutes or so. But always dodge the lights by Esquire and CV Lloyds by taking S Market to Logan to Neil. If there is a light problem, I'm just not seeing it, or perhaps it's because I rarely am driving in "rush hour" so I am not in a constant line of traffic.
"...I am not sure that the new lights that have been put up over the last 40 years are able to do what you claim can be done, especially if those little buttons that pedestrians can push are actually capable of effecting the lights."
Actually, I am sure from looking at several traffic controllers in CU over the last couple of years. In fact, these new electronic controllers make it even easier. FYI---D. Boon, we had vehicle, even motorcycle detectors in the streets for all lanes- left turn & straight, ped push pads and emergency vehicle override capabilities 40 years ago. Just because CU has some of these features on some of the light controlled intersections does not mean this is new. The upgrades have been in the lights and electronics, not what is controlled.
Ever stop and think that maybe the city's movers, shakers and bizznesmen don't WANT the signals synced? If you're moving too fast, you can't see their bizznesses. You won't buy. They won't get rich (er). Driving slow, you get to see all the cool stuff in the windows. Smart (?) bizness folks don't like ANYTHING that deters drivers from seeing their front doors. Trees; garbage cans; derelicts,; nothing. In a pro-bizzness town such as Champaign, you'll likely never see synced lights until sane people control the council, rather than the greedy bizzness interests. [And the morons (like Jerry).]
Maybe they ARE synched, but the "trolls" are too busy getting slowed down by cyclists on arterial streets, and buses stopping on Springfield, and UPS trucks, and people who like to drive 5mph under the speed limit, or who drive 10mph over the limit, or turn right at every red light....that they can't see that they are synced.
Seriously!!!??? Business owners colluding to slow down traffic?!?! Do you listen to yourself?!?!?!
What color is the sky in your world?
I can get from Carle Hospital to Old Farm Center in 10 minutes or so.
I travel that route regularly on weekdays and weekends outside of the rush hour and confirm your assessment. I even made it in 8 minutes on a football Saturday late last season....