In a little publicized poll, the Gallup organization found that the only people more unpopular than the President is the current Congress. In the poll, 28% of Americans had a favorable view of Congress and 64% a negative view, about the same as the Republican Congress.
That was before today when Congress narrowly voted for an Iraq withdrawal timetable that included billions of dollars for pork barrel expenditures. So the decision about American involvement in Iraq and the safety and security of our troops is being wrapped together with a $74 million dollar appropriation for the storage of peanuts.
This bill is a disservice to the troops as well as to the anti-war activists who thought that when they voted for a Democratic Congress that they would see some principled action on the war.
Pork was part of the undoing of the Republican majority. It looks to be part of the Democrat’s undoing as well.
Bush tore into the Dem House pretty good on this one - I was proud of him.
I thought the Democrats had a mandate on the War, and that everyone wanted a withdrawal?
If so, then why'd they need to include these pork projects to get enough votes to pass this withdrawal bill?
Did you see the questions after the President spoke? The representatives of the VFW and Marine Corps League (I believe) as well as a young Specialist gave some brief remarks. Then some hack journalist with her DNC/ANSWER talking points tried to get the Vet reps to say that it would be Bush's veto which would rob the troops of funding. Evidently it's more proof of the "right-wing bias" of the corporate media.
The Dems "End the War!" and "Troops Home Now!" positions are so principled that they just voted to extend the war two more years and did so with loads of pork. Brand new majority...Same old politics.
I can never tell in these threads whether anyone actually believes anything. Do you want us to pull out today or never pull out.
The American people and the American Congress live on all parts of the spectrum between. It takes some compromises to pass bills. I don't agree with tying the unrelated measures together, but I also can't understand Bush's ridiculous response.
You can't blame Congress for passing a bill you are going to veto. This guy refuses to compromise on anything and then gets mad if he doesn't get the bills he wants to sign.
Xian, there are two issues here. The first is whether we should withdraw our troops from Iraq and the appropriate time line for that and whether congress should be setting it. That is what the President is upset about. he said he would veto that. What's so awful about that. Yes he was passionate. Democrats have been pretty damn passionate about it as well.
What is amazing is that anyone would compromise on this bill for a little pork. Sure compromises are necessary, but to have compromises when national security and the safety of our troops are at stake is crazy.
Put this another way. If someone was going to vote against this bill until he got his special pork project it means that he put a price tag on national security and troop safety. Or let's go the other way. What if Bush had offered a bunch of pork to get four reps to change their votes and vote no and kill the bill. Would that have bothered you?
Furthermore, Democrats did a lot of posturing on pork last november, and that all seems to have gone out the window now.
Well said Mark. Our Soldiers deserve far better. The Bill should have never made it to the floor or passed.
I said it bothered me as is, so of course it would bother me if Bush did that. Although, since he can't write legislation, I suppose it would have had to have been through someone else.
But I think it's more complicated than what you said. Pelosi had another half dozen votes of leeway. There were a number of rep's who do want the troops out immediately but would have voted in favor of the bill if necessary.
There were also those who would have voted for the bill without the pork, but I imagine were holding out for the pork.
I'm not saying that's good, but as you said, there is more than one thing going on here.
As for Bush's comments, I still don't understand how he can say with a straight face that Congress shouldn't pass anything he'll probably veto. I mean they have to pass some type of funding bills and since many feel he is the worst president in at least a century, there is no obligation to simple make one he would approve of.
Bush has vetoed how many bills? I am impressed that is fired up enough to threaten one in this case.
And, FYI, I heard that all those new "moderate" Dem Congressmen voted with madam speaker on this one.
It seems every time I read a leftist statement they predicate it with things like "since many feel he is the worst president in at least half a century" etc.etc. etc. The left has been very successfull with this strategy. Predicate every comment or poll (haha) with a statement and eventually people begin to see this as truth. BS. We can not and will not give our enemy a timeline to withdraw. This is assanine (I can picture an ASS here,the four legged version). All the enemy has to do is sustain, not win, sustain which transitions into a political victory due to our inability to meet a wishfull thinking timeline never minding real world, war. We can not ever work based on a timeline that is made public. Sure we can and I'm sure are striving to get the Iraquis to take over the job, and they will in time. The tragic story is the motivation of some of our politicians, it is self serving. Those pork deals probably have strings attached or some kind of lining. They profess to support our troops. They wave that flag and then play politics. It is so blatant. But since "70% of the population is against Bush" acording to Cindy Sheehan, he has been over ruled by public opinion and we must get out immediately. BS
Ah, the "that's bull!" argument. Can't argue with that. You win.
You've got me, I put all of this energy in simply because I hate the troops and our country.
I thought it was pretty clear that many feel he is the worst president in at least half a century, and whether that's true or not, it certainly explains why some don't believe that the executive branch should run the entire country.
I don't see this as a left or right issue. I don't want someone bad at their job manning an extremely vital position for our country. When that person also has the power to appoint others to vital positions that they are bad at, it's a recipe for disaster.
I don't see this as a left or right issue. I don't want someone bad at their job manning an extremely vital position for our country.
That applies to CONGRESS and the buy-out of the Democrats for their vote. The topic isn't Prsident Bush. It's the dems arm- twisting and use of our federal tax dollars to secure a vote. The point is: there should have been a vote on the war appropriations alone. Adding tons of pork makes democrats look bad. No way to rationalize it or pass the buck. They're holding the proverbial (feed)bag.
The next time you're going to vehemently flame somebody, Gregg, you'd think you could at LEAST get their name right.
XIAN, Excuse me for the mispelling.
Well if it weren't for Guy's like My Dad in WW II killing Japs you would not even be on this earth.
My grandfather also fought in WWII. His unit ended up in heavy combat, and a lot of people died. Grandpa received a Purple Heart for being wounded and another award for bravery. He was conservative, but very classy, and I never heard him use any kind of racial slurs.
Gregg,
Please attack the argument, not the person. You were way, way over the top with your comment at 7:34.
Not to mention the fact that Gregg's entire rant was based on a complete misreading of Xian's post, taking for truth a phrase that was obviously meant to be sarcastic. Classy.
Well, at least we can avoid the whole, "There's no more racism in America" meta thread for the next couple of months ;P
But hey, I'm probably going to need a ride to the airport in late June, so I'd be happy to test Gregg's word at that point. I've got a flight to Japan. Ironically enough, I'm going to be working on "building bridges of friendship between 21st century Japan, China, Korea, and America". Perhaps Gregg should tag along with those mad diplomatic skills. :)
RC: I agree for the most part. The problem is that Bush was not criticizing the Republican Congress for such pork and still--for whatever reason--is not criticizing the Democratic Congress for the same.
He is criticizing Congress for passing a bill that he says he will veto, as if they are responsible for only passing bills which he will approve.
A poor choice by Congress does not excuse a baseless response from the administration. You can argue that the main issue here is the pork, not the idiotic response by the President. I could probably be convinced. But the President's poor choices are certainly part of the issue.
"The problem is that Bush was not criticizing the Republican Congress for such pork and still--for whatever reason--is not criticizing the Democratic Congress for the same."
Bingo.
This WH is rudderless.
I have removed the post I had on here last night. Xian Im sorry if I offended you or anyone else. Gregg
No worries. Maybe we can all just take a deep breath before firing away next time ;P
In the poll, 28% of Americans had a favorable view of Congress and 64% a negative view, about the same as the Republican Congress.
Right. But Pew is reporting 50 percent of Americans indentify with or lean toward the Democrats, compared with 35 percent for Republicans. It is WAY too early to start judging the popularity of this Congress, though I understand that straw grasping has become a hobby of Republicans these days.
It's also fascinating that you neglected to provide a link to the actual bill in question. Here's one. If you look at the bill, you might notice that the "pork" that is being labeled as such a travesty actually accounts for about $220 million (I think the overall expenditures, including Iraq, are over $150 billion). That includes $50 million to remove asbestos from the Capitol Hill power plant, $25 million for spinach growers affected by the e-coli scare, and $120 million for the shrimp industry which is still recovering from Katrina (as is the peanut industry, btw). I am not a math wiz, but it seems that most of this pork is related to emergency relief and totals a whopping 0.05% of the overall expenditures.
The sky is indeed falling.