15,000 new Saudi students

Madison makes Urbana look like Provo. As a liberal, I love it there. Their congresswoman is a lesbian! How great is that? And it's no coincidence that the most happening, exciting places are always liberal enclaves. It's because the secular human spirit thrives in these unrepressed places. Would you rather spend a weekend in the likes of Madison, Chicago, Boston, San Francisco...or the likes of Montgomery, Chattanooga, or Springfield, Missouri, where dour grumps are always worrying about hellfire and damnation?

About the "15,000 new...":
A little off topic, but it is funny Victor Hanson used Madison among the most liberal cities of the west. Funnier yet if we realize Madison has nothing on Urbana.
It's hard to imagine little old central Illinois has come so far, but look at these few examples:
the Urbana hard wired socialists are working closely with the kindred Anarchists and socialists of Berkeley to catch up to them;
our homegrown (U of I) former student, maybe still WILL employee who published anti-semitic, hate Israel and America, pro-Hamas propaganda columns in the Daily Illini, and her soul-mates who still spew out in the N-G that Israel has no right to exist;
the DI is the one paper in the US that published the freedom of the press anti-Islamo-terrorist cartoons, so the DI Editor was fired as a result;
the local "media center" who control the get out the vote in campaigns for the Democrats have connections with the Berkeley/Madison anti-Bush, Anti-war campaign (I think they all will have big rallies Oct.28 or so);
how about Urbana's anti-business Mayor with a campaign to "municipalize" private business since city government is so responsive and "better managers", and it really is the cities water;
isn't it the same as in Madison when the Urbana Mayor and council declare themselves protectors of their citizens from business which is the enemy---greedy, dangerous, and indifferent to the public health, safety and well being?
doesn't Urbana now have a vigilantee commission legislated which may include two ex-con "activists" to police the police if they are "offensive"(---per articel III of the UN rules)?
Urbana did pass a nuclear free zone I am told;
didn't Urbana pass an offical policy resolution and deliver it by hand to their Illinois Legislators and the President to put them straight that Urbana's official foreign policy is to stop the war right now and impeach the president?
So, ask Mr. Hansen how is Madison more liberal than Urbana?

Anonymous--I vote for the dour grumps.

As the great Martin Luther King Jr. said, "I have a dream that one day our children will live in a nation where they will not be judged by the content of their character, but the color of their skin and nation of their origin."

Oh, wait, that's not right. What did he say again?

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/Ihaveadream.htm

In my pollyanna view of this issue, I say let the 15,000 enter. However, don't allow them to disappear into the woodwork. Make it clear that they are not entitled to the same freedoms and rights that American citizens are entitled to. Make sure they are attending classes like they are supposed to. If they don't show up at the schools, track them down. If even the slightest suspicion is raised regarding their activities here, use surveillance to track them. 14,999 of them may be legitimate students, use every tool we have to exploit the one that may lead us to groups right here in the U.S. that intend to harm us, and then take them out!

Back to reality. The above would never happen, so what are thinking? Especially since they will be going to the liberal Meccas at universities that will praise their different world views. As VDH points out, these young adults eventually come to question why this decadent America has so much prosperity and their own countries live such deprived lives.

Xian:
That's a very commendable, very idealisic view of the world.

Here in reality, the folks with the motive, the means, the funding, the drive, the hardness of heart, the determination, the past quarter century plus of history and the skewed world view enough to commit terrorist acts - on the whole - are coming from the middle east and setting up shop in the US prior to attacks on the US.

Yes, onsie-twosies are out there - the homegrown Eric Klebolds of the world - but they are disillusioned nutjobs without organization, just loners. The organized long-term campaign of terrorist activity is being committed by middle eastern Arab Muslims. Most of the time, we're just lucky to get the loners before they act. But the long-term international campaign by middle eastern Arab Muslims has the capability for sustained operations, multiple complex attacks over years or decades, something that CAN be tracked, monitored and disrupted.

The fact that the vast majority who are non-violent Muslims disown the whackjobs as not following the true faith makes it no less true that these people are advertising themselves to the world as Muslim. And there's little disputing the fact that they are Arab. The fact that there are ALSO home-growns makes it no less true that it is Arab Muslims on visas posing as students that are the prime suspects for large-scale long-term US terrorism.

How quick we are to forget current events in favor of not hurting feelings...

How quick we are to forget current events in favor of not hurting feelings”¦

That's what I'm saying! A few people's feelings might be hurt if we completely destroy all of the tenets of American democracy in the name of security, but it's worth it right?

No one has forgotten about the events of 9/11, but some of us just don't think that the trade you are proposing is worth it.

Perhaps it is you who has forgotten what the fundamental foundation of American democracy is.

Without that foundation, without MLK's ideals, you have managed to transform the greatest country in the world into something not worth protecting.

America is not some stupid songs or stupid flags or BS rhetoric. It is a set of the greatest ideals that the world has ever seen folded into a meritocratic society.

I would happily lay down my life for those ideals, whether it be on a battlefield, in a classroom, or in an airplane.

Yes. That is my stance. And I applaud you for understanding the real MLK. If you dislike him, that's your opinion, but I have no respect for those who trumpet his name without understanding his ideology.

Anyway, let's simplify this:

Does anyone here believe in an equal opportunity based meritocracy?

In fact, King's whole philosophy falls apart due to his advocacy of communism which is, at its core, essentially slavery to the community at large.

Please explain how that is a false dichotomy. In a communist system, the more you are able to do, the more you are expected to do for the community without thought of personal reward. Where's the merit?

And how do you arrive at your last statement? I made no references whatsoever to ethnicity.

Actually, I believe MLK had some terrific foresight. I truly believe in what he was trying to say...with a caveat.

Look at it from the small-unit military tactical level: the first obligation of a leader is to implement or provide security, no matter what the mission. Say we're on a movement-to-contact. That means that we move out (say, as a 9-man squad) and we keep moving until we encounter the enemy, and our ROE tells us that we destroy enemy upon contact.

For the sake of subjective military leader agrument, the patrol itself is organized for "traveling," meaning that fire team 1 (one half) is in front in a wedge formation, with their weapons oriented properly for the terrain, likely enemy threat and time alotted, then the patrol leader, then fire team 2 in the same fashion as FT1, and they all move as a single unit. As a complete team, the squad covers 360-degrees of the total zone by breaking up the individual responsibility for specific zones among the constituents of the patrol.

The PL determines that the area ahead is a likely area for enemy amush. He takes FT1 leader, and two security personnel up ahead on a leader's recon, and leaves the rest of the patrol in a 360-degree patrol base with FP2 leader in charge, and instructions on what to do "if...," when the leader's recon will return, etc.

The PL gets eyes-on the objective, and leaves the two security folks to keep eyes on as he returns to get the folks at the PB. The two security folks are watching each other's backs, as well as the objective to make sure there is no change in status.

The PL picks up the rest of the folks at the PB, disseminates everything he knows at this point, assembles an ad-hoc patrol similar to the original patrol, with weapons covering likely enemy avenues of approach during the hike, and general 360-degree security.

The PL sets his men in position to ambush an unsuspecting enemy before an enemy has time to set up an ambush for them, leaving left, right and rear-facing security folks to cover 360-degrees of their ambush site.

All cardinal directions from the ambush are covered by security personnel and the main thrust of the attack, the enemy walks through in a ranger file, ambush initiated, enemy destroyed.

Once all enemy are down, the PL brings his people up to the kill zone to perform various after-action missions, and sets non-essential personnel in a 360-degree perimeter around the kill zone to thwart enemy relief missions. PL and patrol gets off the objective and continues movement-to-contact mission.

Successful mission. But the only way the mission works is if security is at the forefront of every single phase of the operation. Once security is in place, everything else can happen.

My argument is the same on the strategic and global scale. Take Dr. King's comments to heart, but in the context of security first. In the macro sense, it means that the whole is protected to continue democracy, fourteenth amendment rights, etc. In the micro sense, during the security phase ('phase' isn't a good word choice, since it should be continuous for the duration of the "mission") some 14th amendment rights, and the intent of Dr. King's philosophy are degraded for specific individuals. But those are temporary and passing degradations, for the individual - unless, of course, the individual is a part of the enemy. But the whole is preserved, and the individual, if the theory and implementation is to be trusted, will come out no worse for wear.